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6 March 2013
To Shackles for some only
I am flummoxed at the lack of response from the ‘authorities’. These are their own rules which have been flouted. The punishment - despite the ‘blood’ cries of some - is not severe. It is minor. Minor. Minor. M.i.n.o.r. Say sorry publically and give up the accolade. I recall a few years back when a multiple award winning Saluki was entered into, oh the “top dog” or some such competition which had qualification criteria that aforementioned ‘top dog’ did not, as then, possess (winning a BIS or similar). The aforementioned Saluki (owner now sadly deceased) won the competition. Cue cries of foul play. Cue apologetic owner. Cue withdrawal of honour. Cue End Of Matter.
Why is this so hard? Fountain of youth, she is not. Minor. mi·nor /ˈmīnər/Adjective: Lesser in importance, seriousness, or significance. Small. Petty. Less. And ah-hem ‘Junior’ (no pun or irony initially intended in definition but how unexpectedly appropriate) (www.onlinedictionary.com) .
Lack of simple action by guilty parties (note plural) - i.e. now authorities and exhibitor: Major. ma·jor /ˈmājər/Adjective: Important, serious, or significant. Main. Chief. Capital. Principal. As in “what is majorly wrong”.
FFS. This is not hard. Public mea culpa. Small price. Public return of prize. Small price. Restore confidence/ confidence building in system, as Mastercard/VISA would say: priceless.
Understanding non-reaction despite negative impact on general confidence. This is hard.
Oh well, back to boycotting, I guess. Roodepoort see ya on the never never.
6 March 2013
Yes indeed, I do remember the Saluki-that-hadn’t-qualified winning the Supreme Champion contest at TKC several years ago. I don’t remember the award being withdrawn and awarded to the runner-up publicly. If I remember correctly it was all done rather quietly and only after a storm of protest had been unleashed on this very website. I felt particularly sorry for the Erwees who were done out of the joy and excitement of winning on the day.
What made the situation even more bizarre was that just a year or two earlier, the Erwees had been done out of another moment of glory when the announcement of the KUSA Showdog of the Year was botched. On that occasion the withdrawing and re-awarding seemed to me to be a very surreptitious affair.
It appears that “authorities” are very loathe to advertise and rectify their mistakes, no matter how badly people have been affected.
7 March 2013
I read with interest everything that people are posting and I have to (un)fortunately give my opinion:
1. Baby puppy class – think it is great….BUT SA Dog people cant even look after their adult dogs properly at the shows with the heat. Countries like Australia is far further advanced than South Africans in many ways – therefore the way they treat their dogs, can’t be compared to us. The problem is that we don’t have a good enough SYSTEM in place to deal with people who abuse and mistreat their dogs. In other countries their laws don’t see animals as “possessions” and therefore in some countries animals have rights to. Here in South Africa if someone is just giving BASIC care – food, water and shelter then that is acceptable….so unless there is a proper SYSTEM that can deal with people who do not treat their dogs well, the problem will continue whether there are baby puppy classes, additional veteran classes or not.
2. The insults that people throw at each other is just ridiculous and frankly embarrassing to the Dogworld in South Africa….and to South Africa in general, seeing that these comments are widely published internationally! Dog showing is a sport…a hobby….something we all enjoy doing with our dogs. Take the personal attacks & malicious actions out of it and give each person the right under the sun that they deserve. Start enjoying the day with your dogs and friends and stop bickering about really insignificant things….there are far worse things happening in the world that people can rather focus on. NO ONE can improve ethics for someone else….its up to each individual to act ethically and responsibly.
Start loving your dogs again ….start seeing them as the special creatures that they are, that enrich our lives with so much love, appreciation, dedication and unwavering commitment.
If we all start behaving like DOGS then there might still be hope for this world!!!
7 March 2013
Having read the entire Roodepoort open show saga I have only two comments to make:
1. Reading this forum, and no other issue, is enough to make people think twice about exhibiting. Do you honestly think that anyone seeing how you people behave would want to show their dog?
2. Why should the exhibiter answer on this forum? If the club has an issue, he can answer to them and they can sort it out. If you aren't happy about their action, harass and slander the club. Nobody actually owes you an explanation, no matter how many pseudonyms you use to express your opinion.
11 March 2013
I can't believe what I'm reading! What a "I'm all right Jack-It's not my concern-I really don't give a stuff-Leave it alone, it will go away" apathetic kind of attitude the dog world has!!
If something similar to this should happen to anyone of 'The leave it alone, it’s not important' crowd', which it easily could because a precedence as now been set, please don't bring it up on this forum or complain about it because you could scare away any newcomers to our sport by bringing it out into the open, by being 'bitchy' 'complaining', 'nasty'! No, just don't say anything, leave it alone, like you recommend the people who actually do care what happens in the show world should do. For I'm sure that the political, 'you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours' kind of judges will drive away any newbies all by themselves without any help from people who would actually like the shows to be fair for everyone not just for 'Faces'.
Saddened and once again, disgusted!
11 March 2013
I fully agree with Karen Gerhardi & Arnel Sauer and cringe with embarrassment at the thought of people overseas reading all these vicious, nasty posts. What must they think of us?
Also it appears that one person is writing many of the posts under various pseudonyms. The words “Alias Abuser” certainly seem to apply to her! What is your real problem with the exhibitor – jealousy perhaps?
12 March 2013
Dear Mrs Silvernail, lovely name by the way.
Ok, you got me there! I am jealous,but wait let me ask all the other aliases "Oy, you lot, you jealous?" They're nodding. We are actually green with envy, we would also love to make 'mistakes' and get away with them, have people defend our wrong doing and eventually end up looking like a victim of abuse.
Yep, you can colour me green alright!
Edie Wright and her 15 other Aliases
12 March 2013
I used to show and judge many, many years ago (and was a founder member of a club in Port Elizabeth, Algoa Hound Club to be precise) and breeding/showing still interests me, albeit not actively! There has been much debate over a dog that won and was too old for its category. This is not a difficult issue and my feeling is that the mistake was a “comedy of errors.” I say this because the owner and/or breeder probably erroneously filled in the entry form and the error was replicated by the club who did not check (having many thousands of entries) properly. It is very hard for owners/breeders/clubs to be objective if they perceive overt criticism (in most instances where none was intended) and the subject becomes very emotional. However, in spite of this I do hope that the error is rectified as I am sure the owner/breeder and the club (and by association KUSA) want to be seen to be doing the right thing and want a dignified and proper conclusion to the matter.
Professor Kathryn Nel
12 March 2013
I see there are more rather silly posts from the “Alias Abuser.”
You are playing with fire – you can’t go maligning people on public forums and FB with impunity, accusing them of dishonesty without proof and unwisely using your own name, as well as various aliases easily traced back to your computer.
I’ve known people faced with law-suits for defamation and slander for far less than what you’ve been doing these past weeks.
I hope you can afford it!
12 March 2013
Could this name possibly be >gasp< ‘An Alias’. Anyone else see the irony of this?Sylvia De Klerk
14 March 2013
I confess, I’m an Alias Abuser. I have written to this forum several times over the years, and I’ve used aliases on a number of occasions. However, much as I would like to (in some cases), I cannot take credit for as many posts as Mrs Silvernail and the Ethics Police presume are coming from one person. Believe it or not, there are several people out there who feel strongly about subjects and want to have their opinions heard without fear of retribution.
The clearest evidence of this lies in the fact that Mrs Silvernail is using an alias, to abuse all of us alias-abusers. That gave me the best laugh I’ve had all week.
19 March 2013
Having just returned from a few days well deserved holiday, I decided to pay a quick visit to Dog World and was amazed to see such a threatening letter from 'Mrs Silvernail', actually accusing one person of writing under all the aliases. This is mighty slap in the face to all the other people who have opinions on this matter. If she believes so strongly in NOT using pseudonyms, why then does she indeed use one herself? Very hypocritical if you ask me!
21 March 2013
Is Mrs Silvernail like the next Bond villainess? We had Mr Goldfinger who had the poor old sweaty Bond spread-eagled on a table with a laser beam creeping up to divide him starting at the crown jewels. I wonder how Mrs Silvernail plans to nail the alias abusers once she’s tracked them down. Maybe she’ll spray them silver and hang them from a Christmas tree!
Ho Ho Ho!
27 March 2013
IT STILL AMAZES ME WHAT PEOPLE WONT DO TO WIN!!!
Judging has been so “off” this weekend......but then it all adds up!!!! You actually see an exhibitor escort the judges wife to the judging table (he is not on the committee!!)but trying to weasel his “bulky self in to the judges eye) so that he might be favoured......so charismatic!!
Then we have a ”puppy” dog beating mature dogs in the ring, taking BOB and winning groups!! ........Wow!! guess what ...the owner of the puppy has her brother taking the judges away on tour to the Kruger park!!!
This is totally unethical...and feel it’s the clubs fault to allow this..... knowing full well she is an exhibitor!!
We pay a lot of money to enter these shows and all I want is to walk into the ring like all the other ”true exhibitors” to receive an honest opinion on my dog....and be judged accordingly ......
IT’S not just our ring but the Utility ring has a lot of “sneaky exhibitors” tooooooooo!!
You people must be so unsure of your dogs to do this type of sneaky business!!!!!! otherwise is it just in your DNA???
THIS GIRL IS ON FIRE!!!
27 March 2013
Those new rings are vrot! The dirt road made us eat dust all week end and there was no space! we had to park our bakkie miles away and just now there will be stolen cars oll over the bottom grounds too! Please don’t put the Terriers there again! I couldn’t stand three shows like that. Two was bad enough.
27 March 2013
The fiasco at Vereeninging and Districts K.C during the miniature dachshund judging.
1) Jack Peden was requested to take Breed Standard and relevant letters to the hound ring to give to the steward, Mr David Jones, in which it is stated that over weight is not a disqualification. Mr Jones refused to acknowledge the rules and rudely informed Mr Peden it was HIS ring. Mr Peden approached Mr Jones long before the Dachshund judging began.
2) When the weight issue began during the judging of Miniature Longs, Mr Jones then called for the KUSA rep, Rob Forsythe, who also insisted that over weight was a disqualification. At NO STAGE was the show manager called to verify the ruling, Schedule 3, Rule 9.
3) My daughter, Hannah Thompson, went into the office before 9 am to verify whether the club was aware of the KUSA rulings re Miniature Dachshunds and their weights. The Secretary was most adamant that it was a disqualification and when my daughter contested her she said my daughter spoke over her (meaning interrupted) and so my well brought up daughter backed down.
4)You will see that Schedule 3, rule 9 and the KUSA Dachshund Standard does not call for disqualification, neither does it for Toy and Miniature poodles where the wording is almost the same in its format.
5) I find it strange that the steward, Mr Jones, incorrectly knew the weight rules but didn't seem to know that the correct procedure was to call the Show Manager and not the KUSA rep!
6) I intend, having consulted an Advocate friend of mine, who informs me that taking the rules and breed standard into consideration, that we have an extremely strong case to apply for an Interdict compelling Vereeniging and Districts Kennel Club and KUSA to declare in total the judging of all Miniature Dachshunds at Vereeniging and Districts Kennel Club Championship Show 23 March 2013 null and void and all awards made in those three breeds (Miniature Long, Miniature Smooth and Miniature Wire) withdrawn, the club to then decide whether to financially reimburse entry fees and make amends.
7)The judge for hounds on the day was Mrs Peak (U.K) an acknowledged Hound Specialist (Bayard Beagles). She must have been really impressed by our 3rd world competence and was put in THE most compromising position and South Africa's apologies should be sent to her.
Graham Thompson (KUSA Number: 003526)
Hound Panel Judge
27 March 2013
The inside arena looked marvellous for this past weekend, and it was nice for once not to have to sit in a hayfield around the perimeter. But the new rings had most of us confused. We were wondering what was the thinking of putting them there all crowded up, when there are bags of space on the other side? I believe there were lots of moans from the Terrier crowd about the lack of space and the dirt and dust.
27 March 2013
Talk about gemors! Who was the idiot who designed the new permanent rings? If this is the best that the Goldfields Grounds crowd can come up with then I give up. I have never attended a show like it. Overcrowded, no room to move between cars or to walk your dogs, too close to the road way, so we were eating dust all weekend. Horrible. I believe that the poor Terriers are going to be in the same place next weekend, this time with the Gundogs.
Ag sies mense!
27 March 2013
There is an email doing the rounds from a prominent hound exhibitor complaining about booing and clapping and bad sportsmanship around the hound ring. Welcome to the dog world Ms Hound Exhibitor. We have had to put up with the screaming around the Herding ring for years and after a while you just learn to ignore it. If we had to put money down every time Momma screams and performs, we’ll be bankrupt in no time at all!
Grin and bear it
29 March 2013
Dear Mr. Thompson
Thank you for your email of 25 March 2013. As a qualified Hound panel judge in good standing you are no doubt aware that the Dachshund breed standard pertaining to weighing and exceeding 5kg being a "disqualification" was changed in 2008. Do you propose then that all awards be withdrawn from 2008 onwards as there is always a dachshund that exceeds the desirable weight of maximum 5kg? Or maybe you only want the awards at Vereeniging and Districts Kennel Club withdrawn?
Getwick Miniature Long Haired Dachshunds
29 March 2013
As someone who was there, I’m afraid you can drive a bus through parts of Graham Thompson’s story.
Can anybody tell me what Mr Jack Peden has to do with any of this? He does not show mini daxis and is not the spokesperson for any of the clubs. Why was he doing the work of the Club Secretary or the Show Manager? Was his interference supposed to be some sort of influence on a judge from the old country? And since when is the ring steward an authority on the daxi breed standard and equipped to give the judge instructions? And what does the KUSA rep have to do with any of this and why is his opinion of any importance? Where was the show manager to go and check the facts?
This whole thing reeks to high heaven and Thompson’s threats is not helping to solve anything.
29 March 2013
I very seldom agree with Mr Graham Thompson but in this particular case of the weighing of miniature dachshund and the misplaced authority that ring stewards feel they have over the procedure thereof I am 100% behind him.
I do not know exactly what took place however it is quite clear that an overweight dog cannot be disqualified. In fact under KUSA rules no dog can be disqualified. Disqualification implies sending out of the ring. The weighing of Miniature Dachshund is not complicated. The judge weighs the dog and makes a note whether exhibit is in weight or over. Currently the rule states an overweight dog cannot be awarded a "PRIZE". This of course had some relevance in England where dogs can win prize cards up to VHC. So I and I suppose most judges take it to mean overweight dogs cannot be awarded challenge certificates. I certainly hope that the Miniature Dachshund club and SA Dachshund club will put out a statement regarding weighing so that there is no ambiguity about the procedure and outcome.
What bothers me most is that some ring stewards in South Africa seem to feel that they have some part in decisions in the ring and management thereof. They don’t.
I am not saying that Ring Stewards are not important they are and absolutely essential to the smooth running of any show but decisions regarding procedure is the judges prerogative and the steward cannot make the call. If there is doubt about rules then the show manager not the KUSA rep must be called and if the show manager cannot answer, then that is why clubs are meant to have a copy of the KUSA Rules available on the day of the show. And in this day and age the KUSA website is available 24/7.
As a poodle breeder and exhibitor I am so bored by judges who feel the urge to measure miniatures and toy poodles. So some rusty piece of ancient steel is dragged out and carried like a burnt offering to the Utility Ring. And in general judges DO NOT know how to measure correctly. The breed standard uses the words "should " not must, has to be etc. So if a dog is measured over what are the implications?? well none really. It is a fault like any other and must be judged accordingly.
The weighing of mini dachs is a contentious issue and it behoves clubs to make sure that correct procedures are followed.
Hopefully in the future Clubs will make sure that International JUDGES are briefed correctly.
Fran Browning Cristina
29 March 2013
Last week end’s shows were a little bit like the Vatican at the moment – all balcony and no Pope.
The shows were completely flat with no atmosphere and predictable wins. I hope the next batch will be a little more hyped up.
Same old, same old
29 March 2013
The status quo re mini Dachshund judging at V & D ch show 2013
1) The show manager, Mr Kuilman, courteously phoned me , and apologized for and on behalf of the club and stated that they wished to refund my daughter's entry fee as her dog never got judged. This gesture has been accepted by my daughter.
2) The secretary , Miss C Diggins , promised me emphatically that she would email me the directive the club was sent from Mrs Bastick at KUSA and even quoted schedule 3 rule 9 as to what I must refer to. I am still waiting for said email.
3) Mr Bruce Jenkins, chairman of S.A Dachshund club informed me in an email that Miss Diggins had phoned prior to the show to borrow the scales and queried how the minis were to be judged to which he responded "as we normally do".
4) What amazes me most in reflecting this fiasco is that when the problem arose at the show that the Chairman of S.A Dachshund club and the chairlady of the Teckel club were all there and even though not requested for their opinion chose to stay mute and this also includes Mr W Janse van Rensberg, one of our leading ring stewards who was exhibiting on the day. He in fact was the one who informed my wife at WODAC last year of the ruling change. Why the silence?
5) The two above mentioned chairpersons are also the people forwarding the motion to FEDCO, May 2013 that the weight and the disqualification clause be brought BACK into the breed standard. This motion is valueless and has to be discarded at FEDCO as the motion is only a committee decision so does not have the backing of their members who have not been given a choice or for that matter the many other KUSA reg'd mini dachies breeders who are not members of any club. There are specific S.A. Government laws pertaining to constitutional rights and the rights of the majority. These SA laws over ride any attempted motion to inflict a minority rule over the masses. I say no more on this matter but it cannot in usual SA dog exhibitor style, be swept under the carpet like so much that has gone before and we are told "to move on" and " that they have taken note" but nothing gets done. NOT acceptable.
29 March 2013
It is easy to work out which “GIRL” [wishful thinking!!] is on fire here. Just check who the loosers were!!
When your dogs get thumped in the ring its very easy to make bitchy remarks about other exhibitors. Not everybody has the suspicious mind of FIRE GIRL. Maybe its menopause or something else that screws with the mind.
Don’t be kennel blind
29 March 2013
THIS GIRL IS ON FIRE.... No you’re not on fire, your buttocks are burning from the imprint of someone’s foot.
ADVICE … Try spending less time justifying why other people are winning and more time figuring out why you are losing.
Take a Pill
29 March 2013
Grin and bear it!!!.......if you can’t handle the “HEAT” get out the ring!! Last time I checked “DOGWORLD” is a sport!! Why can’t “MOMMA” scream and support her Team???
Do you sit at any sporty events and keep your mouth shut......MMMMmmmmmm bet you don’t!!!
Clearly you were never selected as a cheer leader or blessed with a personality!!! Leave MOMMA out!!!we love her support!!!!
When you get a personality.........and some honest sportsmanship...she’ll cheer for you!!!!! So a word of advice STOP your bitter nasty little remarks and leave MOMMA out!! Try looking for someone else to bitch about!!! She is hardly ever at shows anymore!! And you can’t go bankrupt when you haven’t got it to begin with!!!!!
GOOD to know you “grin and bear it” keep it that way!!!
SMILE AND WAVE!!!
31 March 2013
It is with great displeasure that I have to write about the unpleasant showing experience on Saturday at the Transvaal Midlands show in the Gundog ring.
In the 10 years that I have been showing, I have never experienced such an unpleasant day.
I would first like to appeal to show secretaries to please make sure that you actually WANT to do the job….and then to check whether you are actually competent to do the job. It has been clearly highlighted in this past cluster weekend show that some clubs and secretaries clearly have procedures in place to ensure that entries are received and correctly captured – and others don’t - as I entered for all 3 shows in exactly the same manner, how come my entries was not listed the Friday, but received…..not received on Saturday (to spite numerous email correspondence confirming the entries has been received) but received for the Sunday show – all perfect, 100% with no problem?
So this is where the issues started that led to the issues experienced in the Gundog ring as the ring steward did not have the information on his judges’ sheet.
Then although I appreciate ring stewards offering their services – if it is NOT something you actually WANT to do, please don’t do it!! You just make it unpleasant for yourself as well as all the others around you, including the judge and exhibitors – who PAY money so that their dog can be shown for the opinion of a judge. WE ARE EXHIBITORS THAT PAY FOR ENTRIES and therefore should be treated with respect, dignity and fairness by all judges, clubs, committees and ring stewards.
The ring steward of the day was not much interested in communicating properly and loudly enough so that the exhibitors actually knew what was going on. We already waited over 2 hours for the judging to start – where we were advised to be present at 10h00 on the day of judging.
As judging for Golden Retrievers continued, the Open Dog class started. As the judge was moving very fast with his judging, I pulled the ring steward to the side and softly asked him to please give me a chance to collect my Champion Dog after the Open Dog and CC Class as I am handling 5 dogs on the day….the next moment the ring steward starts yelling at me, telling me that is the JUDGES decision what he wants to do and that I must ensure I am ready. I politely and softly asked the ring steward to please stop yelling at me whilst the judge is busy judging and whilst I am next in line. I find this totally unacceptable and I will be demanding a written apology from the ring steward as well as the hosting club for this incident that was totally uncalled for!!!
My open dog was placed 2nd in the class and because of the Ring Steward and the judges requirements, I ran to my gazebo to collect my Champion dog to make sure that the dog is available. The CC was awarded very quickly and within those 20 seconds I was back at the ring entrance to return with my open dog that stood 2nd to the CC dog….only to hear the judge screaming “disqualified” for not being there immediately to award the RCC.
I completely accept that a judge should NOT wait for an exhibitor …but there MUST be some reasonable time allowed for an exhibitor to change dogs / handler or numbers….which this judge was not even allowing! I was ready with all my dogs at the show entrance and not even 5 seconds was given to allow change of dogs!! So needless to say, my open dog was not allowed to stand for the RCC.
The Champion dog class was then judged, of which my dog was placed first.
Again I asked the ring steward to just give me a moment to collect my Puppy Bitch from the ringside and as she was one of the dogs that was “NOT” entered. I asked the ring steward IF he had her number, which he rudely yelled to me he had.
By this time the ring steward ALREADY called the Junior bitch inside the ring and walked off (without announcing my junior bitch)……I tried calling him (clearly he cant hear so well) either. The ring steward eventually turned around after 4 exhibitors yelled to get his attention (another unacceptable behaviour by the ring steward) and was told to just enter the ring with my junior bitch. The judge then threw a hissy-fit and yelled at the ring steward to ensure that ALL dogs are announced …… as the ring steward never ANNOUNCED my junior bitch. I then entered the ring and judging continued - the judge did say that he realise it is NOT my fault….
I asked the ring steward that he cant continue with Junior until he called the Puppy class of which I was just being dismissed – after he told me that he did have her number.
So again I was not allowed to show my puppy bitch.
I was then expecting the ring steward to call BACK the puppy bitch after the Junior Bitch judging which was NOT done….and the following classes were called until CC being awarded.
I went to the ring steward and told him that CC can’t be awarded as my puppy bitch was not called or allowed to show and I was just dismissed by ring steward and judge.
The ring steward did not in ONE instance use the acceptable “calling” method of “ calling once, calling twice, calling 3 times – marked absent” – is that NOT A SPECIFIC KUSA RULE? The problem is that the ring steward spent more time under the gazebo than actually ensuring the dogs on the sheet were at the entrance before the judge was ready for the next class……just to highlight, the ring steward of the Sunday show at Wits was extremely efficient and NO problems with experienced….with the same number of dogs, etc. THANK YOU Steward Davies for doing such a super job on Sunday at the WITS show!!
I then went to lay a complaint at the office and asked that the Golden judging be declared VOID (even though my Champion dog DID win BOB) ….but was told that it would create too many problems and that the ring steward will be removed….but ONLY if this happens in another breed.
It was not even 3 dogs into Labrador when a similar thing happened….so I went back to the office again to state that the ring steward be removed.
The show secretary then did come to the ring and stated that all exhibitors MUST be ready with ALL their dogs at the ring entrance and that they apologise for what has happened but that nothing can be done. Then the judge started yelling at exhibitors and exhibitors yelled back….what a totally unprofessional, unethical, shocking and unpleasant experience indeed!! And most of this is to blame on the entries not being on the judges’ sheets and the incompetence of the ring steward!!
So out of this I would like to point out the following:
1. Show secretaries – please try to do a better job…if one club can do it, anyone can.
2. Ring stewards – please be more professional and ethical. If you don’t want to do it, don’t. Please respect exhibitors and please ensure that the correct procedure, according to KUSA rules are followed and ensure that you call your dogs beforehand instead of just standing under the gazebo. And when an exhibitor talk to you nicely and ask you something, please don’t yell at the them IN FRONT of the judge…..common etiquette comes to mind here?
3. I insist on the refund of my show entry fees for the Open Dog, Puppy Bitch and Junior Bitch classes as I was NOT late for the classes and therefore unfairly “dismissed and disqualified”. The proper procedures WERE NOT FOLLOWED!!!
4. I want a written apology from the ring steward on his rude and unacceptable behaviour in the ring.
5. I want a written apology from the club
6. Please note: Other clubs to ENSURE that the judges take NOTE of how things are done in South Africa, according to KUSA rules and remind them that WE AS EXHIBITORS are paying our money for them to judge our dogs…..that they are invited to judge our dogs and that we think enough of them to take the time to groom and show our dogs under them and that they can really treat us with some respect and dignity. To understand that there are more than likely ONE person showing numerous dogs and we do everything beforehand to ensure that we have enough handlers to help hand dogs over and to be available when more than one of our dogs have to go back into the ring. I have to emphasize that this has never happened at ANY show I have attended in all 10 years of showing and therefore I did NOTHING wrong in this instance!!!
I tried to remain calm and collected throughout this whole ordeal but still thought it only right to highlight what has happened as 4 other complaints was also given to the club. Lets not take things personally – I have not….but yet please just try to IMPROVE things and making showing a pleasant experience for all concerned in future.
And THANK YOU SO MUCH for the show secretaries, clubs and ring stewards that ACTUALLY follow proper procedures, makes showing pleasant for all concerned!! Well done to WITS Kennel Club for the show on Sunday….no hiccups or problems and an enjoyable day overall.
And just another highlight – my Champion Dog won the Gundog Group BOTH Saturday and Sunday and therefore I have no “gripes” about not winning! I am ecstatically happy about the results ….but yet dismally disappointed that my other dogs were not given a fair and just opportunity to be shown or judged accordingly.
Mochavulin & Goldenzauer Golden Retrievers
31 March 2013
Firstly, to IMHO, Jack Peden happened to be walking to the Hound ring when my wife asked him to please verify with the steward that the weight issue was not a disqualifying fault or one that would place over weight dogs down the line. There was no hidden agenda in getting Mr Peden to the Hound ring as he was only asked to address the steward and never the judge. If you re-read my letter the rest would be self explanatory. Are you sitting upstairs or down on this bus that impedes your vision?
Thank you Francesca Browning-Cristina for backing me in this issue. I only ask you two favours A) KUSA has come to the fore on this (as you call it, contentious issue) and put a LARGE notice regarding the ruling on their website, please do yourself a favour and read it as it must surely apply to poodles as well. B) Print out the Dachshund breed standard and also schedule three, rule nine. It leaves no doubt and no room for mis-interpretation. Also, the poodle clubs, were at least ethical when they approached all poodle breeders in S.A for input as to whether they wished to adopt the FCI breed standard or stay with the British one. Mini dachshund breeders HAVE NOT been afforded this right regarding the motion going to FEDCO in May.
Mrs Davies, contrary to what my Advocate friend advised me as to what my option was, I am not insisting that any awards be withdrawn, the ramifications going back as you said to 2008 would be insurmountable. My concept of this was never a vendetta or a witch hunt but a very pointed exercise to highlight the fact that the 2008 has never been efficiently implemented, in fact hardly implemented at all and now you all (minority decision) wish to have it revoked. Yes, I am not against the weight limits as people take liberties but I am highly annoyed now that for four and a bit years the exhibitors have been duped and maybe if you get this right I.e weights brought back in, we should have another four years benefit as compensation in which time breeders have to be notified that they have to make a concerted effort to genetically reduce their size after which there is no going back, call it a window period. Further more I have a HUGE problem in accepting or even understanding that the various Chair Persons and their entourage actually have stood back knowingly and let this happen when THEY were more aware than anybody that the 2008 breed standard had changed, maybe it suited various people's book to not make it public knowledge, more the shame. No hard feelings, life to short, surviving more pressing. By the way, Lance Armstrong was stripped of ten years worth of success when the dope test only actually applied to one year. I think we are all getting off lightly from KUSA when Clubs have either chosen to ignore the ruling or in a few cases, were not even aware. I have obviously become the sacrificial lamb in this instance by bringing it all out into the open leaving no further room for ignorance or deception on this matter. Also my apologies to you yourself as I was under the impression that you were now Chairlady of Teckel club and was not aware that Mr Janse van Rensburg was in fact, in the chair.
2 April 2013
Dear Grin and Bear it
Please explain how one achieves the title of a "PROMINENT " hound exhibitor? A few synonyms for the title are : Protruding, projecting, bulbous, bulging, sticking out.
I must say, i wouldn't like the title!
2 April 2013
In answer to Arnel Sauer's posting.
If you have complaints about the competence of show secretaries, perhaps you would like to join a club and take on the responsibility. I know for a fact that Roodepoort KC is without an official secretary and I am sure there are other all-breeds clubs who could do with help as most committees are small. Unfortunately, show secretaries don't grow on trees and we are only human. Ring stewards don't grow on trees either. They are a rare breed and the same people are called upon week after week to officiate at shows. More people need to volunteer to take on this work.
Very few, if any, postal entries are received these days. This year Wits KC didn't get any postal entries. Slip-ups do occur, for no apparent reason with entries or part of entries floating somewhere or other in cyberspace as they ride along the flimsy email and fax communication lines. When this happens, there is a payment on the bank statement and no corresponding entries. Depending on the reference on the bank statement ("show entries" or "Wits KC" being prime examples), there may be absolutely no means of discovering who the exhibitor is until the morning of the show. Depending on how many such entries are received, this can cause mayhem on the morning of the show and then there is a last minute rush to make sure that the missing entries are put on the judges' sheets before the show starts. Mistakes happen. On a three show week-end, most entry problems have been sorted out by the third day, so the club that day has an easier ride. As an exhibitor, when I fax or email entries I always ask for confirmation of safe receipt.
It seems to me that most complainants are not on committees. You haven't lived until you have been on a good committee where the members all work together and eventually produce a good show. No committee is a one man operation. A group of people are responsible for the successful show. If you can rely on everyone doing their bit, then there is a successful show. If gremlins come along, then hiccoughs make the ride a bit bumpy, but at the end of the day everyone has done their level best. You can't ask for more.
So, if there are exhibitors out there who can do better, come along and VOLUNTEER TO HELP. You are highly unlikely to be turned away.
Witwatersrand Kennel Club
2 April 2013
I just want to thank all the stewards that officiated during the last five shows for a job well done. Especially the stewards officiating in the Hound ring. THANK YOU. Peter Watson thank you, I was home before four on Sunday. Too often ring stewards get badgered by exhibitors personally and in public forums. Exhibitors and committee members don’t always understand how difficult it is to try to get more than hundred dogs through their paces while trying to keep the judge, the exhibitors and the committee happy (I agree there is problems that need to be addressed sometimes)
I want to ask before you complain about the steward in the future, put yourself in his/her shoes or better, volunteer to steward for just ONE show and complain after that.
I also want to congratulate the “Friends of Goldfields” on the how GOOD the Goldfields grounds look. Yes there are some dusty (and muddy) growing pains, but let us all work through it. Again, before you criticize, offer your help and let us all work towards a better Goldfields.
I also have “’n klippie in my skoen” (or a stone in my shoe as we say in Afrikaans) that has been bothering me now for a long time. Is it so difficult to clean up after your dog? A dog defecated in our gazebo one morning before we arrived.. and the owner had just left it. The same happened next to the best in show ring on Sunday.. Often this is done by prominent show people who ought to know better. An incidence that really stuck with me was a junior handler’s dog that defecated while she was leaving the ring, and it was left there for the ring steward to clean without so much as a thank you from the junior handler and several family members. And again, thank you to all the people who do clean up after their dogs or have a poo bag handy for a fellow exhibitor in need.
Willem Jansen van Rensburg
2 April 2013
So who died and made Jack Peden an official emissary for the Hound ring?
Oh, I suppose it’s his sparkling personality, remarkable tact and in-depth knowledge of KUSA rules that made him the obvious choice.
Silly Me for Wondering
2 April 2013
Can someone please tell me why Veterans are able to compete for CCs when most of them are already made up? What’s the point? Surely, they, like the champion class, should only be competing for BOB and group awards?
2 April 2013
Graham, you say “Jack Peden happened to be walking to the Hound ring when my wife asked him to please verify with the steward that the weight issue was not a disqualifying fault or one that would place over weight dogs down the line.”
I don’t understand the following:
1: Why didn’t your wife just verify whether the weight issue was a disqualifying fault with the steward herself? Why ask someone else?
2: You and your wife have many, many years of experience in the dog game between you, but you were not aware that the KUSA rules prohibit disqualification based on faults and have done so for as long as I can remember.
3: Your wife asked Jack to verify with the steward whether the “weight issue” “would place over weight dogs down the line”. Surely that’s tantamount to asking a steward whether the judge will place dogs with missing teeth, cow hocks, straight shoulders etc., down the line?
4: You’re amazed that Bruce Jenkins & Wendy Davies “chose to stay mute ... even though not requested for their opinion”. Why should they react or interfere when, by your own admission, you had not asked their opinions?
Finally as a point of interest, are you or your daughter a member of any of the Dachshund clubs?
2 April 2013
Dear Mr. Thompson
Regarding your postings in this forum on the Miniature Dachshund judging at Vereeniging & Districts Championship Show 2013 (Dated 27, 29 and 31 March 2013). I also want to state it clearly that this letter is written in my private capacity and is not reflecting the views of any kennel club that I am a member of, or served as an official on.
1) The Chairperson of Teckel Club of South Africa is myself and not Mrs. Wendy Davies. Mrs. Davies, the treasurer, is appointed to represent the Teckel Club at DOGSPC on my behalf.
2) On that day both Mr. Jenkins and I was mere exhibitors attending the show, the same as quite a few other committee members of all three of the dachshund specialist clubs. Both Mr. Jenkins and I still needed to be judged by the officiating judge, it would be impertinent of us to get involved in the judging procedure at that stage. As was pointed out by you, it was the show manager that needed to resolve the matter, and we would have gladly assisted him if he asked for our assistance. You question the decision of the ring steward to call the KUSA representative instead of the show manager but you wanted exhibitors that have no official authority on that day to interfere with the judging procedure. To quote Mrs. Christina Browning post on this forum dated 29 March 2013 “If there is doubt about rules then the show manager not the KUSA rep must be called and if the show manager cannot answer, then that is why clubs are meant to have a copy of the KUSA Rules available on the day of the show. And in this day and age the KUSA website is available 24/7”.
3) We only became aware of the change in the Dachshund breed standard at the beginning of last year when Mrs. Davies and Miss Dorrington started to qualify for judging. The matter was discussed in a Teckel Club Committee meeting and then after the committee had voted, it was decided that Mrs. Davies would raise the issue at DOGSPC. However, if my committee agrees, we will add the matter on the agenda of our AGM this year.
4) You stated on your letter dated 31 March “Furthermore I have a HUGE problem in accepting or even understanding that the various Chair Persons and their entourage actually have stood back knowingly and let this happen when THEY were more aware than anybody that the 2008 breed standard had changed, maybe it suited various people's book to not make it public knowledge, more the shame.” Then you should have also asked why various hound panel judges that have judged Miniature Dachshunds after 2008 have not picked it up and made the show holding clubs aware of it. You also stated that you are “highly annoyed now that for four and a bit years the exhibitors have been duped” and “Furthermore I have a HUGE problem in accepting or even understanding that the various Chair Persons and their entourage actually have stood back knowingly and let this happen when THEY were more aware than anybody that the 2008 breed standard had changed, maybe it suited various people's book to not make it public knowledge, more the shame.”. I really don’t think there is this big conspiracy by Dachshund specialty club committee members going on to “dupe” exhibitors of dogs that weigh more than five kilograms. Almost all of us that showed miniature dachshunds have had an experienced of a dog that were disqualified for being overweight, for instance my champion bitch bombed the scale at the 2011 Sporting Dogs Association Show and three dogs of one of a Dachshund Specialty Club committee members have bombed the scale at the Vereeniging and Districts show the same day that started this whole debate. And if it is true, then quite a few highly respectable judges are in on it, because they also did not make the 2008 change public.
5) You argue that in a democratic new South Africa, that committee members elected by the club cannot decide on behalf of their members, then the change of the Kennel Union of South Africa’s, breed standard in 2008 without consulting the Dachshund specialty clubs or all the breeders can also be perceived as infringing on the constitutional rights of the Miniature Dachshund breeders and exhibitors. Furthermore, the majority of the exhibitors actively showing currently are serving on at least one of the dachshund specialty clubs committees, and I know all the club committees would welcome additional committee members.
6) I wholly agree with you in the matter that the club officials appointed by club members cannot speak on behalf of all the Miniature Dachshund breeders, but they also did not have a say in the change in 2008. There was even less consultation in the 2008 change to the breed standard that you defend now. I might be mistaken, but at that stage the Dachshund specialty clubs were not even consulted. Furthermore, then one can also argue that on the current structure of KUSA, where club representatives made up the quorum of the provincial councils, a breeder that is not a member of a club has no representation.
6) This is my personal opinion and I am not speaking on behalf of any club I am a member of or officiating for. The KUSA Breed standard for Miniature Dachshunds stated regarding weight: “Ideal weight: 4.5 kgs (10 lbs). Desired maximum weight 5 kgs (11 lbs). Exhibits which appear thin and undernourished should be severely penalized”. This means that there is already a 500g allowance built into the breed standard. What will happen if we keep increasing this allowance, the Miniature Dachshunds will keep on get bigger and bigger. And in the long run, the dogs that answer to the breed standard will look like midgets against the flashier bigger dogs. Silly but a probable case scenario, if we enter a really good standard as a miniature it has only one fault its size.
7) You stated “to make a concerted effort to genetically reduce their size after which there is no going back”. There should be no need to go “genetically reduce the size of the dogs. The ideal weight of 4.5kg was NEVER changed. Only the status of a FAULT was changed from being a disqualification to one a judge should keep in mind when make a decision. Therefore, if a breeder has actually increased the size of their dogs, they actually have to breed a fault into their lines.
Willem Jansen van Rensburg
2 April 2013
At Sunday’s show, an exhibitor asked me to comment on Fran Browning Cristina’s post as she (the exhibitor) was confused by it. I told the exhibitor that I was unable to comment, as I hadn’t read the post, but would check it out on Monday.
Upon eventually reading the post, I was surprised to find Fran citing a standard (she calls it a “rule”) which hasn’t been in use since 2009. In 2008, the previous Dachshund standard was replaced by the new Kennel Club standard in which the weighing imperative clause for Miniatures, i.e. “It is of the utmost importance that judges should not award prizes to animals over 5kg (11lb)”, was replaced by a fresh clause, i.e. “Desired maximum weight 5 kgs (11 lbs). Exhibits which appear thin and undernourished should be severely penalised.”
Citing the provisions of a standard which hasn’t been in use for a number of years is unhelpful in the current debate and, as a person involved in judges’ education in Gauteng, Fran should know better.
Fran is correct in saying that an overweight dog cannot be disqualified; that is specified in Schedule 3, Regulation 9.2. Fran is also correct in saying that ring stewards in South Africa often overstep the mark and become involved in matters which do not concern them. If there is disagreement or uncertainty about ring or judging procedures, the Show Manager needs to be summoned to guide the judge.
Under the previous Dachshund standard, exhibitors of Miniatures which “weighed out” had the option to remain in the ring and be placed (in the knowledge that they would not be in contention for any award), or to withdraw voluntarily (which the majority seemed to prefer to do). Post 2008, exhibitors are still at liberty to exercise either of those options, with two important differences:
1. There is no longer any obligation on a judge to weigh the Miniatures; and
2. If the judge decides to weigh and a dog “weights out”, and if the exhibitor then elects to stay in the ring and be judged, the judge must treat overweight as a fault like any other and be guided by the “Faults” clause,
“Any departure from the foregoing points including desired body condition should be considered a fault and the seriousness with which the fault should be regarded should be in exact proportion to the degree and its effect upon the health and welfare of the dog.”,
in making his/her awards on merit only. In other words, post 2008, there is nothing in the Dachshund breed standard preventing a judge from awarding CC, RCC, BoB, or any other accolade, to an overweight Miniature.
I hope the above clarifies the position and puts an end to speculation.
A final comment: In fairness to exhibitors, I urge show-holding clubs to publish in their schedules whether their judge for Dachshunds would be weighing the Miniatures. That way there can be no surprises on the day and exhibitors would have the choice to show, or not show, under a particular judge knowing his/her decision on weighing beforehand.
President: The South African Dachshund Club
3 April 2013
I would like to extend a special THANK YOU to you for the entries at the WITS shows. It was done with no problems, no issues, etc. and it goes to show that you are an EXCELLENT show secretary and many can learn from you.
I am HAPPY to volunteer as show secretary for Roodepoort – please let me know who I can contact as I will definitely take up the position if wanted.
3 April 2013
I don’t want to come embroiled in mud slinging and therefor will keep anonymous, but from what I saw from where I sat at Vereeniging’s judging, Hannah Tompson left the ring voluntary. When her dog clunked the scale she withdrew it and left.
I have read Graham Thompson’s account of events, but I know what I saw.
3 April 2013
Port Rex Kennel Club Ch. Show 26 May 2013
In view of the controversy surrounding the weighing or not weighing of Miniature Dachshunds I will be following the KUSA adopted Breed Standard together with Schedule 3 Reg 9.2.. That is there will not be any weighing of Miniature Dachshunds during my judging appointment. This position will remain until such time that KUSA formally amends the regulations and breed standard to make weighing compulsory.
3 April 2013
I’m getting rather sick and tired of this argument from certain quarters that it is somehow a sin for a judge to hoop poodles. What is wrong with a judge verifying the height of a poodle in order to make sure that it is within the height limit?? Why is scorn constantly been heaped on judges who want to hoop??
This all flared up again when a miniature of suspect size started doing some winning. God forbid that anybody should dare to put a hoop on it.
And what is also strange that that there is apparently only two specialists from the same household in the whole of South Africa who has the knowledge of how to hoop a poodle and this knowledge will seemingly die with them. We must demand training from them before all this knowledge goes six feet under.
Stop intimidating judges!
3 April 2013
Thank you to the Hound ring steward for the Wits show.
Peter Watson, you did a great job, things ran like clock work and we managed to get home at a reasonable time.
Also I would like to take this opportunity for your assistance when my dog had a little “mishap” and giving me the time to get her settled again.
3 April 2013
I agree with Willem Jansen van Rensburg, Peter Watson did an excellent job in the hound ring on Sunday. It was plain sailing and a far cry from Friday’s fiasco.
G’d’n you mate!
3 April 2013
Please can you advise how many committees you serve on, how many times you’ve stewarded, and how many times you’ve judged?
Based on your answers I’ll decide how much value to attach to the comments in your recent post.
3 April 2013
To ARNEL SAUER – Clean up your own act before you criticise
lol or LOL
3 April 2013
It is a pity to see what was once the premier club of Gauteng now lying at the bottom of the pile. The only remnant of the past is a dark dingy pub.
One only has to look at the current leadership who at the last championship shows were seen running around with beer bottle in hand and semi-inebriated, chatting up the good looking well-heeled ladies. It is noted that he is never seen to offer any guidance and encouragement to both our child and junior handlers.
Their last open show was staged the day after an all breed championship show, more emphasis was placed on who would man the pub rather than anyone from the committee bothering to advertise their show.
The only vision coming from this committee is either seen through the bottom of a beer bottle or an empty whiskey glass.
The current bunch of drunks are more interested in running a tavern than focusing on the upliftment and future of the club. A year has passed and all that has happened is that the club has slipped deeper in the pit.
All other clubs have to rely on staging quality shows to generate funds to keep them afloat and to provide for the future. This club seems to rely on the revenue generated from the tavern to keep them afloat rather than staging good quality shows.
A grounds committee was formed of sober clear thinking people to rescue the grounds and have successfully turned it into a venue of which we all can be proud.
The junior kennel club should be an example to them of what can be achieved with a committee who are sober, clear thinking and have a passion for the sport.
It’s time that the drunks of the tavern should be booted out and an interim committee formed consisting of sober, clearing thinking people who have passion and FORESIGHT for the future of this club and our sport.
3 April 2013
Whatever happened to the Ethics Police? Where’s the charge sheet that’s usually issued after a weekend of shows? We’ve already had 3 weekends of shows and not so much as a spot fine has been issued. I would have thought the EP had truckloads of subject matter to work with after some of the shenanigans that I saw occurring over the last two weekends.
5 April 2013
Dear "Exhibitor" and "Just Wondering"
Firstly, yes I am a member of the South African Dachshund Club and have been for the last four years. I am also a member of the Dachshund club of Queensland if that counts for anything.
Secondly, I did not leave the ring voluntary, I put my dog on the scale and when the scale went down the judge said "sorry he is over the weight" and indicated that she could do no more. I then left as she clearly had no intention of judging my dog.
May I ask, just out of interest, why neither of you could have put your name to these letters? If you have an opinion why not put your name to it?
Lastly I would like to add my opinion on the weight issue. Many of you will say that I am influenced by my parents but I am 16 so I think that I should be able to think for myself.
I say, leave the scales in the ring and weigh, but make it judges discretion, a fault like any other and not a total disqualification therefore good (or even brilliant) dogs are not thrown out the ring. I realize that if the scales are completely done away with, we will lose our miniatures because they will all be too big. Another point I would like to make is that in the breed standard of Dachshunds regarding weights, the wording for Standards and Miniatures is exactly the same so I would say that if you make weighing a must for the Miniatures then it should be the same for the Standards. Lets face it, if the Standards can't make the weight why should the Miniatures have to?
As I said before I am 16 and am therefore still a junior so I would just like to say that I am not wanting to estrange myself from the Dachshund people as they have made me feel very welcome and have been extremely supportive. My parents are happy that I am friendly with the Dachshund Breeders (both Standard and Miniature) as they feel that they are very good role models for me to have.
Hillstone Miniature Wire Haired Dachshunds
P.S My parents left me to write this letter of my own accord
7 April 2013
I cannot but agree with Stop intimidating judges because I was bad mouthed to kingdom come by the twisted twosome when I dared to say I was in favour of hooping. Poodle people have eyes you know and it is not so difficult for them to see that a dog is over the measure. Why else was everybody talking about it?
So the tactic was to scare judges off hooping by maligning them in advance. Its a bit like a serial killer suspect refusing to have his DNA taken to eliminate him as a suspect.
Judges mustn’t be intimidated. Hoop if you want to and remove all doubt. Whether you come from the back or the front there is only one place for the hoop to go.
7 April 2013
Hannah Thompson is quite correct in stating that she was disqualified from being Judged at Vereeniging KC's show. I too had a Mini Longhaired Dachshund who "bombed the scale" and the Ring Stewart and the Judge suggested that i leave the ring as my dog was now disqualified. I stood my ground and insisted that my dog be judged as i had paid my entry fee. The Judge's response was "Whats the point". My dog was placed 2nd out of 3 dogs but was not called back for the Reserve Best of Breed.
Hannah may be able to think for herself but being the polite, sweet natured, 16 year old girl that she is, declined to argue with those in "authority" and left the ring just as she was told to do.
Karen De Klerk
7 April 2013
Dear JUST CURIOUS
I think the EP has gone under cover and will not be heard of again.
The EP has obviously discovered that no amount of patrolling and finger wagging will fix the ethics of dog show exhibitors and given the whole thing up for a bad job. The EP had probably also discovered that its a waste of time to preach the ethics gospel to a bunch of scallywags.
So as predicted the threats of “I’m coming to get you” were empty.
EP = Empty Pot
9 April 2013
Well, it seems that 'Mrs Silvernail' scared off all the other aliases! Why am I not surprised about this, the whole incident was swept under the carpet never to see the light of day again!
I agree with Empty Pot, It's a total waste of time hoping for ethics in the dog world!
9 April 2013
Two questions for the Ethics Police:
1: Is it ethical to rush off to shows over 1000 kilometres away to enter under people who are your very good friends and others who were your very good friends before they emigrated, especially when you haven’t set foot at a show outside Gauteng for several years?
2: Knowing this, is it ethical to travel with such people?
9 April 2013
To Vereeniging and Districts Kennel Club
I’ve read all the posts on the weighing of the dachshunds and I see in Mr. Thompson’s post of 29 March that the Club has decided to reimburse the Thompsons as their dog did not make the scale and could then not be judged. Will the other exhibitors that did not make the scale on the day also be reimbursed, or is it easier to just ignore them as they are not making any waves?
I did not watch all the dachshunds being weighed but I know of 5 of them that did not make the scale. The whole fiasco started with the Champions class in Miniature Longs where 2 out of the 3 dogs ‘bombed’ the scale. As Mrs. De Klerk stated in her post of 7 April, the judge placed them, but it was only because they were already in the ring, she did not consider them for any awards. All dogs that came in after that was disqualified for not making the scale, you couldn’t even take your dog around the ring.
I am sure the Ring Steward marked all the overweight dogs off on his judges sheets.
Fairness for all.
10 April 2013
Such a lot of information implicating individuals involved in immensely illicit, immoral irregularities and impropriety. Incident upon incident – incorrigible, inane and invalid - indicators of an inauspicious 2013.
If only the EP was not so busy having a life.
I have the utmost contempt for the competitors who have to cheat to win, but jihads are expensive, emotionally draining and time consuming, and there would be such a lot of effort involved digging two graves.
To find the answers to all the questions posed to the EP please revert to previous posts, they are all there and repetition is so boring. You will note however that my forecast about the reduction in the number of entries has been “spot on”.
A short while ago I was having a chat with an acquaintance of mine who happens to be a medical professional.
We were discussing the cheating that goes on in the two sports/hobbies in discussion, and the fact that it was generally known who was cheating and how.
He was explaining to me that the prize money in the sport/hobby he was referring to was anything from R10 thousand to the top competition which was a R1 million prize,
“So”! he asked what do you win at a dog show, “A Rosette” I replied, “Yes but what is the prize?” he responded “Well generally nothing – just the rosette, but” I added hastily seeing that he was singularly unimpressed “you often get a bag of dog food and occasionally someone might win a dog blanket”
He looked at me in total incomprehension, “Just to clarify, what you are saying is that people spend money to enter a show either intending to cheat or in the certain knowledge that others are cheating, that the rules of the competition allow cheating but you all enter anyway? And after you all invest time, money and effort - the ultimate prize that you MAY get IF there is an honest judge - is a piece of ribbon!!!!! You really can’t be serious”
I swiftly changed the subject deciding that no amount of justification would help and unwilling to solicit a lower opinion than he had already.
Dog Shows R.I.P.
10 April 2013
At the PE Shows a Golden Retriever puppy bred by me was attacked (unprovoked) by a Pointer exiting the ring. Attached is the letter from the vet. This poor dog might have permanent damage and this just because the owner of the Pointer did not have control over their dog when exiting the ring. But my big question is that SINCE WHEN DOES A POINTER HAVE SUCH A BAD TEMPERAMENT THAT IT ATTACKS AT GOLDEN PUPPY WHEN JUST PASSING BY, UNPROVOKED? IS A POINTER NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A GUNDOG …WITH A SOUND TEMPERAMENT???? I would like to know who the owner of this dog is as well as the breeding of this dog and would appreciate any further information about who witnessed this incident firsthand. Please send me email with information that you might have to firstname.lastname@example.org
I would expect the owner of this dog to at least pay the vet bill of this puppy – even though one enters shows “at own risk” but we still expect handlers to be able to CONTROL THEIR DOG AT ALL TIMES as per the KUSA Rules & Regulations at every show!!!
Apparently the owner of the dog did not even apologise and was unable to control the dog. It ripped into the puppy so badly it had to go to the vet to be stitched up. These are owners that are NEW to the show scene and needless to say doubt that they will be interested in participating at shows again if this is the way that people behave, unable to control their dogs…not even prepared to apologise for what happened.
10 April 2013
My Staffie got nailed in Vereeniging show for “being too big”, in other words too tall, high, whatever. Will I also get my entry fee back from the club?
I have now heard it all. I don’t know who is in charge of Vereeniging, but does he/she realise what they’ve started??? One must seriously question the intelligence of whoever made this ridiculous decision.
Club Committee Member
12 April 2013
WELL DESERVED – LOVELY WIN
Wow, it was so nice to open one of the sites today and see a lovely achievement for an exhibitor over the P.E. Weekend.
So nice to see an honest opinion go through and to take BIS … a dog well discovered.
Congratulations to the South African Judge for the Group and the “ex” South African Judge for BIS.
What a special “ON THE DAY”.
Not even my Group or there
12 April 2013
Did the puppy’s owners go and report the incident to the club, or did they receive advice that as the GSP belongs to the daughter of a provincial councillor and the Kusa Rep for two days it would be pointless?
F**ting against thunder
12 April 2013
Dear Mrs Silvernail,
Just to let you know that you didn’t scare me away!
I came to the conclusion that I actually do have a life and I wasn’t going to spend any more of it pursuing something that was a sheer waste of time.
When you put it like that, it is rather pathetic isn’t it and to think that people have had to leave the dog showing world for a while due to stress, obviously worried about not winning that fancy rosette!
Sorry, no alias.
Sylvia De Klerk
12 April 2013
My word, but the EP is a real professional at ducking and diving.
Many questions, still no answers
12 April 2013
Dear club committee member
Was your dog judged? Yes, well then why should you get your money back?
Hannah Thompson's dog WAS NOT JUDGED! It was disqualified by the Judge (who admitted to having been briefed the night before the show) and the Ring Steward. What don't you understand?
Exhibitor and a club committee member
12 April 2013
Oh gross, Arnel. It’s terrible when a Gundog has such a shocking temperament that it will just attack a puppy.
I hope the people have laid a complaint at show because dogs like that must be banned from the show grounds before they attack people as well.
23 April 2013
I was thrilled to see the current ad on the Dogworld website. How wonderful that the judges had the guts to put up something different in the Utility group in PE. Honestly one is so tired of seeing the same coiffed creatures (take your pick which one) go up show after show. There are other beautiful dogs in the Utility group that never get a look in.
Congratulations Roenel Swart!
20 May 2013
Please can someone explain the logic of this to me:
High profile family is very involved in sourcing judge, importing judge, entertaining judge, and is on committees of clubs where he judges.
High profile family wins two groups at show where he is judging Best in Show.
High profile family does lap of honor and withdraws ONE dog from BIS.
High profile family does NOT withdraw second dog.
Am I missing something here?
20 May 2013
Shew! Talk about a guaranteed win! Isn’t it sad when a Show’s committee member exhibits their dogs at their own show and then go on to win big under a judge who is obviously their friend- You scratch my back, I will scratch yours!! Do you think they ever wonder why the show entries are on a rapid decline??
20 May 2013
After the shenanigans we all witnessed this past weekend, I presume the ETHICS POLICE is busy compiling a docket and will come out guns blazing in a day or two.
Waiting in anticipation
22 May 2013
EP ALERT!!! EP ALERT!!! What’s going to be done about a committee member showing in Best in Show on Sunday under a judge she’s been entertaining for a week?! And she’s in charge of a province’s judging training nogal.
No wonder our sport is dying.
Sad state of affairs
24 May 2913
SAD STATE OF AFFAIRS
I did not see any committee member showing at BIS on Sunday. A committee member did do a lap of honour and exit.
24 May 2013
Never mind the one committee member that won on Sunday – what about the TWO committee members who both won groups at the stupid FCI show on Friday. How desparate can you be?!! You organize the show, you bring out the judges, you entertain them and then you show and win under them. It’s just too cosy for words!!!
These are serial connivers. The EP is no match for them.
Don’t know why we bother
29 May 2013
Who is the bright spark is that decided the KUSA show on Saturday should start at 7.30am?
It’s winter and there’s no KUSA Nationals to fit in, it’s just a normal championship show with seven judges, why on earth do we need to start in the freezing cold? How long can it possibly take to judge a maximum of 700 dogs? It’s also Saturday, so no one has a long drive home.
Spare a thought for the many exhibitors (like me) who have an hour or two’s drive to reach the show and for those who have grooming breeds that need to be prepared. They will be arriving in the dark. It’s just not fair and is once again proof that the people running these shows have no concern for exhibitors whatsoever.
29 May 2013
Dear Western Gauteng KC Show Manager,
Best you have your eyes examined.
I checked my catalogue and you are right, one committee member did do a lap of honor and leave the ring, however her sister, the VICE CHAIRMAN of your club ALSO showed a dog in Best in Show and she certainly did NOT leave the ring.
Frankly, I was even more disgusted that she showed and won the group under the same judge that she had entertained during the week.
I thought it was sad, because usually I really enjoy your show and this spoilt it for me.
Too tacky for me
30 May 2013
I agree that the early start for KUSA is ridiculous, But at least KUSA are using Goldfields Showgrounds for their shows. Unlike Northern Tshwane who seem determined NOT to hold their shows at Goldfields, and make life difficult for exhibitors in the process.
We all hate having to move camp over a weekend, no matter where it is, but there is a bigger and more important issue here…. Friends of Goldfields needs every bit of revenue possible to keep the grounds going! They’re doing a stirling job of maintaining and improving the grounds and Goldfields is looking better than it has in years, and yet some club like Northern Tshwane steadfastly refuse to support them.
To add insult to injury, rumour has it that NTKC is now going to move dates and join with another club that will also move away from Goldfields, so that will take away yet another source of revenue for Goldfields. I think this is extremely short-sighted on the part of these clubs. Our sport is struggling as it is, let’s try to do whatever we can to keep it alive and let’s ALL work together to keep our one and only showground!
Goldfields Showgrounds supporter
30 May 2013
Well said “Don’t know why we bother” the dog in question is now blazoned in an advertorial on one of the websites as Winner of the Group and Thanks to the Judge Blah blah (puke). He "the judge" and a few other “judges” could hardly not put up the dog when he is being swanned around SA and chaperoned arm in arm at the show etc.
What a win! And then of course we had to put up with Mother Hubbard announcing at the group judging that the dog in question is now an Int Champion too! How righteous and errrrm ethical is that! Well done on your "win". Really a merit award?
WHO’S FOOLIN’ WHO
25 June 2013
We had two very well organised and run championship shows last weekend – the first for the Swartland and West Coast Kennel Clubs. Congratulations to the committees, and thank you for all the very hard work. Both shows were a huge success, with festive opening ceremonies, a relaxed and friendly atmosphere, fine and spacious grounds and good catering.
I have been showing since 1981, and have thought that I have seen it all, but on Sunday I stood astounded at the show. The previous week in Oudtshoorn BPIS went to a very nice and top winning puppy under a senior All Breed and respected Gundog specialist judge. This puppy even has a few CCs. On Sunday this very same puppy was in the line-up with two other quality bitches when the CC was withheld. This simply does not make any sense. Judges do not have to justify their decisions – no accountability, but in the end exhibitors have to understand why a judge finds something so seriously wrong with their dogs that a CC is withheld. In the end shows should be a learning experience as well. If it has been fault judging, I would like these faults, which must be very serious and disqualifying, to be pointed out to me. Then (should I agree !), after having bred and made up numerous champions in the breed, I would have to admit that I have gone blind or have been ignorant and fooling around for 40 years. In the end I have been insulted, and I think also my fellow exhibitors.
Dennegeur Labradors (1974)
26 June 2013
Thank you Danie.
This puppy has won a Best Puppy in Show and a third BPIS, under local and overseas judges. She has 3 CCs and 2 RCCs. She has also had 2 puppy group Firsts, 3 seconds, 2 thirds and a fourth with many quality puppies in the line up, not standing with just one or two.
I am concerned that some judges do not know the breed specifics, and need to look up their standard at a championship show. Learner judges I can understand. Judging is not about fault judging, it is about judging what is in front of you, and whether it conforms to the breed standard.
If you have two of equal merit, then you can decide which if either has a fault.
The perfect dog is hard to find.
To withhold on all three exhibits, in my mind anyhow, was inexcusable.
26 June 2013
Daniel, I was not at the show, and I don’t know the puppy in question, so this is just a general comment.
A judge should withhold the CC not only when he/she finds “something seriously wrong and disqualifying”. Read the wording on a CC. “I am clearly of the opinion that this exhibit is of such outstanding merit as to be worthy of qualifying for the title of champion.” Some judges do not like to award CCs to puppies – perhaps because they prefer to award on “what is” rather than “what it promises to become”. IMO, a dog should be in its prime before it is awarded on. I think CCs are awarded too easily sometimes, based on this seriously wrong/disqualifying attitude.
The good ones will become Champions soon enough. Sadly, even a lot of the mediocre ones.
What’s the rush?
27 June 2013
I was at the show on Sunday and I cannot understand why the judge withheld on the Labrador Bitches -
I am well aware being a Gundog Group Judge of the wording of the CC and find it very difficult for the judge to be of the opinion that these bitches were not worthy of the title Champion.
The bitch in question is OUTSTANDING and on the day was more than worthy of the CC as were the other two in the line up.
I do agree that some judges will not award to puppies and so be it - BUT this judge did award to puppies even younger than the one in question.
There is no hurry to make any dog a Champion , but to withhold on a dog more than worthy from a World class breeder is just unacceptable and it only makes one person look stupid !!
1 July 2013
At least our friends in Cape Town can close the tunnel , divert the trains or throw themselves on the runway so the plane can’t land. Up here we are stuck with the ignorance and all you can do is buy more Kleenex.
1 July 2013
In response to the issue of CCs - I find it truly disheartening to hear that CCs are withheld from dogs that have previously won top awards. Even if it was on puppy level.
I feel the exhibitor must have the right to approach the judge in question to explain what the fault is in the dog.
Did the puppy in question advance to best puppy and how did it place there?
Very curious to see how this plays out.
1 July 2013
A note of commendation to the Chairman and Committee of the Swartland and West Coast Kennel Clubs for hosting a wonderful show weekend on the 22nd and 23rd June 2013 in the Cape.
Both shows were opened in a carnival atmosphere. The judges and stewards were introduced prior to the commencement of the show, and lunch breaks announced – a nice touch!
The shows continued to be run like clockwork! The mood of the exhibitors was established by the superb atmosphere – so much so, there were smiles and kindness all around; truly an atmosphere that Dog Shows could be fun – regardless of winning or losing!
Ann and Joy
1 July 2013
Reading all these comments - which are probably all true - it actually puts one off attending shows. The pleasure of showing is no longer there, due to unfair judging and because one does not "suck" up to judges. It is always the same old folk who win and no-one can disagree with that!
13 July 2013
DURBAN & DISTRICTS KC
What a venue GELOFTE SCHOOL was with lots of space for all (at ring side, parking, walk ways act.)
Everybody was in a good mood at an excellently well run show.
This venue beats Ashley sports grounds hands down, as one has to live with, not enough parking, the Ashley club committee’s arrogant ways, gazebo’s/equipment been damaged by drunks and bottles been broken under your gazebo at night.
ell done Mark and team it was a real pleasure to attend one of the far too few well run shows.
Keep up the excellent work
13 July 2013
Having just got home from today’s championship show, fed the dogs shown and being thankful the others had already been attended to, I gathered my thoughts together and just felt something needed to be said.
EDKC 2013 championship show must take first prize for the most exhibitor UNfriendly show for this year. Oh sure the entry was good, the Chairman boasting that he had 800 dogs. I would have thought that after last year’s debacle the judging would have commenced earlier. But no the same format from last year was put in place with a 9am start. This may have been nice if the show had started at 9am. I remember looking at my watch at 9.20am and it had just started.
Then of course there was the lunch break. From my perspective as an exhibitor in the Herding group we timed it that the nothing happened in our ring for 1hour40minutes!!?? Yes by all means have a break for lunch, but does it have to be that long. Needless to say the show went downhill from there on - a new exhibitor to the Herding ring at her very first show had such a bad experience by being shouted at by both the Chairman and Ring Steward she has sworn off ever coming to a dog show again.
What a surprise to see the KUSA rep. handing out certificates in the office.
When the Best Ins well that was fun. The Chairman and Secretary insisted on judging Best in Show simultaneously with Best Junior in Show. (in an effort to get the show finished before it was totally dark)The Best Junior in Group owner also handled the Group winner but the owner was told bad luck - make a plan. I wonder if it had been the same dog winning both groups what would have happened - probably the owner would have also had to make a plan. It is a privilege to win a group and I felt sorry for all concerned at having to find a ‘runner’ in the BIS at the last minute which is totally unacceptable. At this point it was a race to finish the show before total darkness what a disappointment to the other Best In’s winners no exposure just a rush to get it over with.
Eventually the last of the In Shows was judged in semi darkness, well done to the judge who chose the Min Long Hair Dachshund for Best SA Bred in show how you saw him in the darkness is beyond me. The poor ring steward just couldn’t see to read who the winner was.
The time I left the show was 5.59pm. Ridiculous don’t you think?
Just when will these people get their act together?
OBSERVANT HERDING GROUP EXHIBITOR
16 July 2013
All the boasting about your huge entries...never worked out sooooo well...a right mess!!
Who gets home, from a show at 7.30 at night in winter ?? let alone any night?? MADNESS!!!
So want to know why the herding breeds could not be completed by the same judge (he has the qualifications to have completed herding and group??? Just playing around at the exhibitors expense and time!!!! Mind you it was all the groups?? BRAIN what were you thinking???
As for the awful humiliation that 2 NEW EXHIBITORS had to endure, showing their Australian Cattle dogs for the first time!!! Got shouted at in front of the INTERNATIONAL judge and all herding exhibitors around the ring, by the PINKY ...you should be ashamed of yourself PINKY!!!!! WHAT were you doing hovering around the herding ring in the first place?? Throwing your little bit of authority around..... Noticed you were gone after Australian Shepherds were completed!! MMMmmmmmmmm PATHETIC PINKY !!!!!
ALL GROUP winners of SA BRED,VETRANS AND JUNIORS had to be judged in another ring in the dark with no support or recognition of their wins!!!! Sad case of bad management!!!
PINKY OR BRAIN...quick question???? What would you have done if 1 dog had won more than 1group??? 3 CALLS AND YOU ARE MARKED ABSENT!!!!!
Please BRAIN keep A eye on PINKY !!
ONE OF YOUR ENTRIES!!!OR NOT!!!
16 July 2013
A couple of weeks ago a good friend of mine sent me a notice that there was still time to enter the EDKC show. I was delighted, the first show of a new beginning for me, as the last time I showed a dog, was about 2003 when I reluctantly did the obligatory 5 shows to get my ACD Bitch made up. At that time I hated every show, found them to be complicated, too long and rather boring.
Now, some years have gone by and I have learnt much as a result of some hard knocks with my ACDs and their hereditary health issues. I have travelled overseas to meet other ACD breeders and after attending the European Winner, VDH and World Winner shows as the guest and friend of Zuzana Behne I have had a change of heart.
As a result I plan to show my imported Bitch and the pups that were born out of an AI litter with imported semen. Now my goals are different, to show my Cattle Dogs is of course one of the goals, to meet other breeders and the people who are passionate about breeding good, healthy dogs and also love the community feeling of the gathering at the shows is also a goal. I accept that not all will be like-minded or have the same values but ‘each to his own’ and there is no better forum than the shows for likeminded dog lovers to meet and enjoy each other.
My attitude is different, I now know why the breed ring structure is what it is and that it is up to me to make the most of it. Which is why yesterday at the EDKC show I walked out of the ring, my gorgeous ACD minor pup at my side with a smile on my face, in spite of having just been shouted at in the most unprofessional and rude way by one of the organisers of the show. Quite frankly any humiliation on my part was outweighed by the positive experience of finding myself setting up next to Lorette, the daughter of Jenny Gray, who having never met me before, smilingly applauded the way my daughter Kristen and I set up our site, showed interest in my dogs and made it clear how delighted she was to see new faces at the “show scene”. Not only Lorette with their famous Australian Shepherds but all the breeders in my vicinity were interested and welcoming, Stephanie with her elegant and beautiful White Swiss Shepherds and Dian and Margaret with their gorgeous corgis, all actively helped and encouraged Kristen and me.
When entering the show I had spoken to Carol Immelman, who was so very patient and tolerant of my many questions, about the possibility of entering four dogs and probably being the only handler. It was agreed I would inform the ring steward of my situation and so long as I was there on time, I would be given time to get my various entries in and out of the ring.
Luckily, my daughter Kristen, who has zero experience of shows offered to help me. Kristen is a vet and does have confidence in handling dogs so her offer was welcomed by me. We both did our best, certainly practised at home and at dog training but in the ring we were to say the least, inept!
So it is very disappointing that a member of the EDKC, disgraced himself with an unprofessional, exceptionally rude and public verbal warning about me delaying proceedings. It is my opinion that Unions, in all their different roles and functions are established to serve the members, and therefore have a duty to do so respectfully. This would include all officials and volunteers who represent the union.
As if things weren’t bad enough an unusual and confusing division of our section resulted in a second judge requiring the dogs in the group competition to be judged again. This to me is unacceptable, I don’t think the authorities at the show realise the slight to the first judge by this action. It is tantamount to saying his decisions were not trustworthy and therefore had to be done again! At this stage our ring steward was outrageously rude to Kristen, his excuse when my flabbergasted daughter challenged him was that he is “a volunteer” The result is that the only other member of my family who is as passionate about dogs as I am has stated she will never participate in another dog show!
Unlike Mr. G. Schultz, I waited until the end of our section before telling him in private and not publicly as he did to me, that I was most disappointed, not only because he humiliated me but that in front of a visiting international judge he behaved in such an unprofessional way. I am proudly South African and want us to be experienced by the international community as worthy of respect.
Of course, I am now being public in my accusations. I apologise for my double standards but after much thought I feel that there is a lot going on in our Kennel Union at this time and this issue is a small part of it, one of the things that need attention from both sides: How do we the members interact and communicate, the mistakes we unwittingly make at shows that contribute to frustration of organising members of our various committees etc…… Kristen, who is also a UCT MBA graduate, suggested that at every show newcomers are officially welcomed and “branded” in other words all are on notice to be patient with them and allow extra time, this way you may hook them for life (good business practise) and being prepared for the extra time it takes to get them familiarised should reduce the frustration of the officials when newcomers cause delays. I suspect there are quite a lot of opportunities in this suggestion, maybe another qualification that may bring in some funds?
1. On my request Mr. G. Schultz agreed to send me an apology by email and copy it to Mr A. Hudono. I am sad that in apologising Mr. G. Schulz found it necessary to justify his behaviour. In spite of the pressures of a show and the need to finish in reasonable time, if newcomers have a bad experience they are unlikely to return. I suggest reading some of Steven Covey’s comments about apologising would be in order. “ I am sorry BUT” Always creates more friction!
2. Mr. G. Schultz also agreed to contact my daughter and try and persuade her to change her stance on participating in future breed shows.
On a different but much more important matter, it seems, from an open letter I received via e-mail, written by Jackie Browning, who I don’t personally know and which was forwarded to my e-mail address by Lindy George, our Kennel Union may be in trouble. I personally don’t approve of this approach about the situation in our executive structure. It seems to me that supporting a group of people who seem to be critical without positive suggestions would be going from the frying pan into the fire.
It is a win/lose that they are attempting to achieve rather than a win/win.
I know very little about the working procedures of our Kennel Union but suggest that it is time for a big campaign of feedback from the members. What do we want? How should we, the members on the ground have a voice? Perhaps start with a simplified explanation of how our Kennel Union operates because we can’t make meaningful suggestions and changes if we don’t understand what the problems are.
Is it possible we are not using today’s technology well enough and therefore are running an expensive organisation in terms of numbers of employees?
Are we unable to get the volunteers we need because the job is too demanding and complicated and could things be streamlined to make it less intimidating to volunteer.
Should we have some workshops on communicating and supporting each other…?
Do we have a structure for accountability to the members?
Would it be useful and feasible to get in a reputable business consultant to do a report and make suggestions.
We clearly have an Acting President and in practise an Acting President has all the rights that a president has. So let’s start there, leave out the emotions and get going with a re-invigoration of our Kennel Union.
I admit I was shocked by the letter and if there is any truth in it I would like to see the evidence, which should be open to all members. In the absence of evidence I would consider this an attempt at a coup.
I believe that problems are opportunities. I personally would love to see our Kennel Union with a younger generation at the helm, and an older generation as respected mentors of the helm.
18 July 2013
Well done to EDKC for their marvelous ring lay-out and walkways and for all the foreign judges! Much appreciated!!
18 July 2013
While I applaud the efforts of Helen Lachenicht to put a positive spin on her negative experience to the Dogworld, I have a few points to enter into the discussion.
As a faculty member at another business school, I have pondered the lack of, for want of a better word, courting of ‘customers’ (members/ exhibitors/ show goers) of the Dog world. I have thought on the inherent patronage invested in keeping a leader beyond his constitutional sell-by-date and the lack of forward planning that ensues a quest for job rather than institutional security. Whether or not the current moves against the strange limbo in which the Union finds itself are indeed appropriate and if the outcomes are predictable on a binary (win/lose) axis, it is hard to say. As the Chinese still reply when asked about the impact of the 1789 French revolution: “it is too soon to tell.”
Nevertheless, Helen’s daughter Kirsten’s suggestion is a fair one and I have mused similar but without the branding aspect. A consumer behaviour specialist myself, it is “customer experience management” which I have thought of. Customer experience management is about the experiences that a product/service provides which should be designed to ensure that the customer comes back. I was reminded of this recently when a first time exhibitor (and currently only time exhibitor) attended our breed show. She bought a puppy from myself and I invited her to the club show. Glory be! She won her class (against two other pups – her siblings in fact). She was asked to go into the ring again. Much excitement! And this, being a breed show, meant she was lavished with prizes (she won a coat, food and a rosette). She asked for her photo to be taken with her pup and the rosette. She was delighted with the experience. She drove back to Pretoria East is paroxysms of delight – at her purchase of a puppy; at her decision to come; at her sheer good Sunday morning. Will I encourage her to enter another show? Hell no. Who will match that experience? Who else would give decent prizes to lowly class winners? The stuff is reserved for those who don’t need it. At another specialist breed show I am part of, a senior professional show goer had a fit when the committee said, in the interest of spreading the love around to the hobbyists who keep the show going, the special classes (best head, best coat, best smile-type-of-thing) were closed to the BOB winner as it was a slam dunk and they would walk off with all the prizes (which happened the previous year). The professional show goer never entered the specialist show again. The hobbyists did. The club still has the numbers they need to have a show.
So my new puppy owner is better off thinking that she has the most special puppy in the world who won a rosette at the show and have a beautiful memory rather than live in a world where even Junior handling a few years’ back became the doggie equivalent of pistols at dawn.
As a marketing scholar, there is little precedent for a system whereby the ‘customer’ and the ‘competitor’ are one and the same. The motivations which drive behaviour towards these are fundamentally different: one we want to praise and keep and the other we wish to disparage and drive away.
And this is built on a system which draws its exhibitors and administrators and adjudicators from the same pool of people, if not in some instances, the exact same people. The banking world – and where it has lead us – is a far better example. Many investment banking firms employed the very same people from public institutions who were there to referee their behaviour.
So the hobby of dog showing gets ever smaller. Marketers would term this double jeopardy – big brands get bigger and small brands get smaller. Economists call it a negative feedback loop. We may be friendly to exhibitors of other breeds, but woe betide those of our own. I have heard of breeders who euthanise their litters, apart from the ones they keep, in order to keep the ‘opposition’ away from their ‘bloodlines’. Breeds which have shrunk start realising the importance of things called ‘gene pools’. Capitalism, eh? Can’t live with it; can’t begin to reform it.
Cooperation is a principle of communism, not capitalism. But capitalism will have to learn.
The following two posts seem to have been lost in cyberspace! Ed.
25 July 2013
Many thanks to Peter Brits and all of those who complimented us on our venue.... I really felt that it worked well and was very open to public view, important to our Show World.
We do apologize for the ticket availability on the day and have rectified as many problems as possible, please e-mail me if you still have some problems :- email@example.com,
we appreciated all of your entries and hope to see you again next year.
25 July 2013
In reply to Wendy – “always the same old folk who win” – could it possibly be that “they” have the better dogs? No, I am not speaking as a top winner, but with my first dog I did exceptionally well and she was not bred my me. My suggestion would be : look at your dog objectively is he/she REALLY better than the opposition? If not, then do with what a lot of us started with, you have a not-so wonderful bitch but use the BEST dogs to cover her and then keep and show your best and one day you’ll get “there”. There is no honour in “putting down” those who win consistently.
7 August 2013
What a pleasure to attend the TKC open show after my unhappy experience at the Eastern Districts Kennel Club championship show.
The TKC organizers were welcoming and helpful and even the fickle July weather co-operated.
It seems, however, that after my unpleasant experience at the Eastern Districts Kennel Club with Mr. G Schultz, he once again had to be the fly in the ointment. While walking towards a closed gazebo I could not help hearing Mr. schultz's loud voice discussing me, in an abrasive and derogatory manner. HE COULD NOT SEE ME WALKING TOWARDS HIM UNTIL I ROUNDED THE CORNER!
When I confronted him he tried to turn the tables on me by aggressively asking me what I was doing at the show.
The conversation went something Iike this:
HL "what do you mean?"
GS "you said in your letter on Dogworld you would never attend another show"
HL "I did not!"
GS "you did!"
HL "I most certainly did not!"
GS- even louder "you did!"
For those who care, the letter Mr. Schultz referred to is still on the dogworld show forum and what I said can still be verified.
What I find really interesting is that Mr Schultz also had a similar tactic when I told him at the Eastern Districts Kennel Club show that his behaviour towards me in the ring was unprofessional and rude. There were many witnesses, most were appalled and would describe his outburst as I did.
It is a pity Mr. Schultz is lacking in social graces but the fact that as a committee member of the Eastern Districts Kennel Club he clearly has no concept of discretion is shocking. Sooner or later this trait will get his club into serious trouble.
I now want to publicly, state that I not only no longer expect an apology from Mr. Schultz, but I won't accept one. I don't believe it would be meaningful.
I am relieved I have been able to take his measure so promptly and will avoid him at all times.
The TKC open show was, in my experience positive and I look forward to more like it.
12 August 2013
Helen Lachenicht should not spoil the dog world for the rest of us real loyal members.
Our judges and stewards are volunteers, they do not earn a cent, put in an amazing amount of time, learning and effort for every breed of dog to preserve our breeds and should be fully respected and admired. Do not use this forum to run down our up and coming stewards and future judges.
Supporter of our Ring Stewards and Judges.
20 August 2013
Recently I observed a specialist championship show and was dismayed by what I saw. Because the numbers have dropped dramatically and in a last ditch attempt to ensure the Club did not lose its Championship Show status, the participants in my opinion really crossed the line, one of the dogs in the Veteran class was in such a sorry state that it’s back legs kept collapsing, not even taking account of the limping dogs that went into the ring, one of the bitches had been in an accident and despite pain killers could only walk on three legs, and looked to be in quite a bit of distress as the handler tried to encourage it to hobble round a complete circuit of the show ring. All of this under the watchful eye of an International Judge.
It will, I suppose come as no surprise that some of the participants are those who in the past have demonstrated questionable ethics.
Rather than write on this forum initially I sent an e mail to the club in question, and the participants thereof, assuring them that “it comes from a true concern about the status of the dog world in general and xxxxs in particular”
The result was, as I suppose I could have expected, the usual hate mail, accusing me of virtually everything except genocide, whilst not denying their actions they insisted that the Veteran dog was enjoying himself - you can hardly give credit to such a stupid statement.
I forwarded my e mail to KUSA, but have to date heard neither from them or the club in question.
A bit naïve I am sure in expecting one could instil ethics where there are none, however I still believed that at the very least all of us would put the welfare of our dogs first.
Ignoring a lack of ethics is one thing but to ignore what could be perceived as cruelty to animals is moral cowardice.
“He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings with men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals” Immanuel Kant.
P.S. Helen I think you should remove your post at once, the person in question is at this moment applying for jobs in Australia, let us not put anything in the way of his relocation.
Their loss is our gain - oops of course I mean their gain is our loss.
20 August 2013
In response to Supporter of our ring stewards and judges - just what point are you trying to make - at no point did Helen Lachericht run down our up and coming stewards and future judges in her correspondence to Dog World. She merely pointed out the rudeness of the EDKC chairman Mr G. Schultz, the ring steward who has been around for many years and that a visiting international judge should witness the debacle.
20 August 2013
I attended The Cape Town Kennel Club Open Show on the 11 August 2013 which had in my humble opinion THE best ring steward I have ever seen. I was not exhibiting in either of these rings but I would like to compliment the ring steward who ran the Utility Group and the Main Ring. I believe his name is Duane Riley and I think that he should be running classes on how to steward! He is friendly and polite while being both organised and efficient. He is articulate in his instructions and managed his ring in an audible and precise manner. Well done and I hope you become a very permanent feature on the show scene Mr Riley!
18 September 2013
A note of THANK YOU to the 3 Free State Shows. Catering Facilities, Toilets, Rings and organisation was absolutely fabulous as well as the really pleasant atmosphere. A big thank you to all involved and well done to the new committees and Chairpersons. Great to have you back with a bang. We really haven’t travelled much this year, but it was great to be part of this weekend.
Chaldonne and Donnehaus Dobermanns
10 October 2013
On behalf of the committee of Sasolburg Kennel Club, I wish to thank all the exhibitors for the excellent entry that we received. We will always endeavour to keep our show as pleasant and affordable as possible. Our sincere apologies for the lack of certificates on the day, owing to the failure of our brand new printer. The certificates will be available at the SA Ladies Show on 10 November from the office. For those not attending SALKA show or if it is urgent for the certificate, please contact our secretary, Eileen Bates, firstname.lastname@example.org who will gladly post them to you. We hope that everyone had a good day and hope to see you again next year.
13 November 2013
TKC SALKA Weekend
I just have to say I absolutely hate the different groups being on two separate fields – it sucks! SALKA what happened to the overseas judges this year? A note to the SA judge who judged Junior Handling at SALKA, I’ve never seen such a disgusting display! last show of the year, the kids have worked all year round, been waiting ringside since 7.30am and all you can ask them to do is ‘up and down’, no swopping of dogs no nothing! if you don’t want to judge handling or don’t know how – here’s a clue lady – DON’T ACCEPT!
What were you thinking!
27 November 2013
Dear "What Were You Thinking" ,
I for some years now have been doing a lot of thinking re- the Junior Handling competition and certain things have now got to be said. I have always been under the impression that Junior Handling was to encourage the up and coming generation of dog handlers and breeders, to give them a solid grounding for when they take over (hopefully) from us older folk. It appears to me (and I am also qualified to judge junior handling at championship level) that we have gone horribly wrong in the application of the concept of junior handling. Why are these juniors made to do things in the ring that they will NEVER be asked to do in a breed ring? The talent of handling is to make a bad dog look good and a good dog, outstanding. There should also be empathy with the dog and the exhibitor in a low key manner, should look like he/she is in total control of the exhibit and should also display to a degree, a certain amount of pizzazz while in the ring. Over the last 15 years I have seen very few young handlers which I would consider talented. Caitlin Pansegrouw, the Deaval brother and sister, Stroud and Tarryn and Graeme Graham were to me outstanding but sadly they are lost to the dogworld which defeats the object of the exercise. I am not prepared to mention the current crop as my own daughter is also competing in Junior handling. I personally keep away from the ring when my daughter competes as there seems to be a correlation between pony riders mothers at horse shows and over zealous mothers and so called "handler trainers" at dog shows. In the past I have seen Juniors crying before they went in the ring, so much was the pressure applied by their mothers. In Dr Rolfes defence, she did not ask the handlers to do unnecessary Ts and Ls nor was she trying to trick them by constantly moving her own position in relation to where they were in the ring. This crown rule of the dog being constantly between the handler and the judge gets over played and to my way of thinking a dog that is always, even Internationally, shown on the left hand side of the exhibitor must now be disorientated by being put on the right hand side. Most well trained dogs automatically go to the left so why the change just to endorse the golden rule of junior handling.
One wonders if the allure of a Crufts trip was not in the offering, would the pressure be less on the handlers? I personally like to see the same handlers competing in the breed ring where unfortunately some judges put up adults and ignore dogs exhibited by juniors as they find this an easy way out of a hard decision between two dogs. Quite often the junior is showing the dog better than that shown by an adult and this also goes against the grain with me. The Browning sisters, Bruce Jenkins and myself to name but a few have had the tenacity to weather the breed ring and WIN whilst we were juniors and WE are still here showing without the launching pad of the Junior Handling competitions.
(I am now 66 and won my first C.C and Best of Breed at a championship show when I was 18 in my Matric year and still going strong)
11 February 2014
I see SA Ladies has decided to go the same route as most of the Cape Town clubs by excluding Champions from their Open Show Best of Breed. Great stuff, Ladies, let’s give the youngsters a chance.
I just have a problem with Baby Puppies and Veterans. Baby Puppies are not supposed to compete for Best of Breed, but your schedule says they will and you have no Baby Puppy in Show class. Now that South Africa finally has an official Baby Puppy class, why are you forcing them to compete against much older puppies before they can go any further. That’s really not fair.
Your schedule also says Veterans will compete for Best of Breed. I don’t know many veterans that are not champions, actually, I can’t think of any. Does this mean a champion veteran be entered in the veterans and compete for Best of Breed, or are champion veterans forced to enter the champions class and therefore be excluded from competition for Best Veteran in Show? That’s also not fair.
If you’re going to take a leaf out of the Western Cape’s book, why not do it properly. Take a look at their schedules and you’ll see that neither BABY PUPPIES or VETERANS or CHAMPIONS compete for Best of Breed. They all go through to their relevant stakes (Baby Puppy in Show, Veteran in Show or Champion in Show). These classes are still judged on the group system, so they do not take any extra time, and you’ll end up with much happier exhibitors.
You have a great idea here, but only if it is properly implemented, it is going to fail dismally unless you rethink it now while there is still time to make changes.
Think Before You Leap
17 February 2014
In reply to "think before your leap"
The baby puppy class has been added to the championship shows where a pup had to be 6 months old on the day of the show, so dogs between 4-6 months can now complete but do not qualify to win any awards, except to go forward for Best Baby Puppy in Show. There are some clubs that are therefore not charging the full entry fee, however there has been no change to open shows, dogs have always been able to enter from 4 months old.
Regarding the Veterans and Champions competing for Best of Breed – that’s a club decision.
17 February 2014
What about this new trend of showing puppies that are younger than 4 months in the Baby Puppy class. Why are the clubs allowing it?
I left my puppy at home...
18 February 2014
Did anyone notice that on the "Showdogs" website, the dog that won Best Baby Puppy in Show at the Northern Tshwane KC show on the 9 February, is advertised there and it states in the ad that it was born on the 1 November - that makes the dog just over three months on the day of the show. Do the exhibitors just have a total disregard for KUSA rules, or are they not entering with the correct age?
RULES are RULES
19 February 2014
Supporting RULES are RULES
The old adage, “RULES ARE MADE TO BE BROKEN”.
First of all, I would expect in our Summer months, one would consider the wellbeing of our Puppies and let them socialise at home until minimum 4 months old, but to some exhibitor’s out there, NO, it’s one’s self glory “one” needs to persist!!
Some folk have learnt from the past “abuser’s” and I might add Senior All Breed Judges in our system to take out their baby puppies to a Special Puppy class for the Open shows … even the “Powers that be ‘LEAD BY EXAMPLE’ and drag their well coated 3 month old puppies out to a Special Puppy Class to pertain their self-edification ….. so, where am I going. “SOME exhibitor’s” learn from these “Leaders” and follow suit. CAN WE BLAME THEM …
Another flaw for our sport, and especially again, not considering the wellbeing of animals.
Let’s forgive and simply learn from the mistakes and move on with 4 month and over puppies for the Special Puppy Class at Open shows and should clubs wish, BABY Puppy class for Champ shows.
SUMMER “HOT” EXHIBITOR
19 February 2014
Flaunting the Rules
The same person who showed the BP Dog ring stewarded at NTKC but showed the BP dog in the BBPIS.
Why do certain people think that some rules and regulations do not apply to them. Even if there is no rule pertaining to the showing of your dog on the day that you have ring stewarded, surely ETHICS will make you think twice if not three times.
Rules are for all.
19 February 2014
With regard to open shows. Baby puppy classes are NOT compulsory classes so clubs can decide to schedule or not. With regard to Baby Puppies getting BOB at open show as from January 2014, they cannot. When Schedule 3 was amended to allow for Baby Puppy classes at championship shows schedule 4 and 4a were inadvertently amended. Schedule 3 controls championship shows so amendments on this schedule sometimes inadvertently amend the other 2. This matter has been referred back to NBJSC for amendment but as it stands at present BABY PUPPIES at open shows CANNOT get BOB. There are only a few compulsory classes as it happens Appendix 1 of Schedule3 under Definition of classes. It is compulsory to include Minor puppy, Puppy, Junior, Graduate, Open and all others are optional.
3 March 2014
WHATEVER HAPPENDED TO HONESTY IS THE BEST POLICY?
I noticed that a Red Tri Australian Shepherd was entered in Baby Puppy at both Eastern Districts and Northern Tshwane's open show, now in the KA catalogue, I see he was born on the 1st of August 2013 and should have been entered in Minor Puppy.
Luckily at the Eastern Districts Show the Red Tri Puppy was beaten by a much younger puppy which was entered in the correct class.
Unfortunately at the Northern Tshwane Show the Red Tri Baby Puppy who was incorrectly entered won the group and competed for Best Baby Puppy in Show. Apparently, he wasn't the only incorrect entry as the winner was too young. They both robbed other dogs of the awards.
Why do these CHEATERS always think they can get away with lies and cheating and then blame it on a honest mistake?
YUM YUM BUBBLE GUM
5 March 2014
Dear Rules are for all
To add your posting, we need to ask ourselves what our KENNEL UNION is doing to implement and govern the rules which all members of KUSA are subjected to?
It is public knowledge, as advertised on the Showdogs website, that the said exhibitor knowingly entered and showed an under-aged puppy in an age restricted class.
There are some serious statements to be made here:
1. Baby puppy class clearly stipulates an age rule of 4 – 6 months!
2. The exhibitor, knowingly and deceitfully, chose to lie about the age of the puppy at entry!
3. On being judged in the class, the exhibitor knowingly and deceitfully, chose to lie to the Judge regarding the age of the puppy!
4. On being awarded BBPIS at the one show, the exhibitor knowingly and deceitfully, chose to collect all prizes offered by Sponsors and the Kennel Club!
5. The exhibitor knowingly and deceitfully, chose to do this on more than one occasion!
6. The message we are sending to new and existing exhibitors is that of it’s OK to disobey the rules!
7. We will lose Sponsorships, if the Sponsor has reason to believe that their Company’s name is being brought into disrepute!
And the list can go on and on……………
So, what is OUR KENNEL UNION going to do about this type of behaviour? Or are they going to hide behind the fact that nobody has lodged a formal complaint?
DISGRUNTLED MEMBER OF KENNEL UNION
7 March 2014
This is more of a happy / sad note.
I was very pleased to see hoops been used at the recent shows. It's about time, although it was disappointing that the judge placed a dog Best of Breed with his tail down.
Please judges bring on those hoops, for all breeds with a height restriction!
Love it! Love it!
8 March 2014
Something that really caught my attention at the Cape Town Shows this past weekend, was the judging of the Utility Group at the Kennel Association’s Championship show. The Miniature Poodle failed to put his / her tail up and was obviously oversized. Most disturbing was when the same dog, still dropping tail went on to actually win the group.
At the following days show the hoops were however brought out and the same dog did not meet the size requirements for a Miniature Poodle (being oversized). Well done to the Judge Mrs M McClusky for firstly requesting the hoops and secondly and most importantly, not awarding places to oversize and / or drop tail dogs.
This was unfair to the exhibitors and explains why show entries are decreasing.
10 March 2014
Make the hoops compulsory and make sure the judge is 100% familiar with the breed standard - we are paying a lot of money and put in a lot of effort to strive for the better of the breed and when the standard is compromised, either deliberately, or due to lack of knowing the breed standard, it is very disheartening when the injustice is so apparent.
If it continues, I suggest we call a ban on entering our dogs.
Love it too
10 March 2014
I am glad to see people took note of the Utility group judging - awarding a dog with a drop tail who just so happened to be oversized. What sort of messages are judges trying to send out. Simply that they want to award the person behind the leash irrespective of the dog. This is an injustice to those who pay their entry fees and spend time grooming, not to mention those who have travelled from far. No wonder why people stop showing - seriously what is the point?
Seems CT had its fair share of face judging as the Toy group seemed to experience drama of a similar sort.
The show season is really starting of on a positive note
Sickened by the joke
13 March 2014
As with a Miniature Poodle who went on to win the group the Saturday but the following day was found over the size requirements - all Poodles should be measured. With only size separating the three varieties, the importance of the hoops cannot be overstated. KUSA SHOULD enforce hoops and judges taught the correct use thereof. It is sad when one has to refer to the catalogue to confirm which breed (Standard/Miniature/Toy) was just placed as the size doesn't seem to tally - a clear indication for the necessity of hoops. Hoops were designed for a purpose and rightfully so should be used for the betterment of the breed. Judges actions should be for the betterment of the breed and withholding on oversized dogs one of them.
ALL FOR HOOPS
14 March 2014
Please don't forget the measuring device for various Hound heights as well.
14 March 2014
As a long-time breeder of poodles, specifically standard and miniatures but I have also shown and bred toys, I felt compelled to write. I was very distressed to read the current crop of letters on this site regarding recent judging decisions pertaining to poodles in the Cape. Reading the letters I was a trifle confused as to whether the writers were annoyed that a particular dog won a group with his tail down or that he was deemed to be oversized by another judge.
There are two issues here: One is a judge’s decision to give a top award to a dog who is not performing to his/her full potential and the other a judges decision to eliminate a dog because of size issues.
The first issue is that a judge’s decision is theirs alone. Many of us have seen dogs whose standards’ ask for tails to be carried up, winning with a tail down or dragging. It’s annoying but no worse than a judge putting up a palpably limping dog or one that has a glaring breed fault.
However what is more concerning is the apparent glee from exhibitors that a judge measured a particular dog and withheld an award because he/she was apparently over the Miniature poodle height limit of 15inches (38cm). We don’t know that for sure because KUSA specifically forbids discussion by judges on the reason for placings. The judge may have taken into consideration the dogs apparent size and indeed may have preferred the winners for other merits.
I sincerely hope so!!!!! There are currently over 200 breeds listed by KUSA and apart from a very few (about 15 in total), ALL require adherence to a height restriction. Some are very demanding saying awards cannot be given to dogs 2cm below minimum size; others such as Hungarian Kuvasz must be measured with a stick so that its very precise proportions are followed. Clumber spaniels only have a weight limit and Irish setters have NO height or weight. Borzoi MUST be a minimum size. Many toy breeds only have weight mentioned, as do Boston Terriers (3 weight classes), Bulldogs and French bulldogs.
The Miniature Schnauzer standard is quite bald: Ideal height for males 36cm not more not less .
Dobermann can only deviate from size by 2cm. Lhasa cannot be not more than 10inches (25cm)
So one asks oneself what are people thinking when they judge poodles?. Our standard states quite clearly “should be under 38cm” for miniatures and under 28cm for Toys and I repeat, should be not must be,
Highly undesirable, cannot be awarded and that dreaded word disqualified is NOT in the standard.
The word Must was taken out of the breed standard in 1987 by the Kennel Club.
The original reason why there was a restriction was that in the early part of the history of the breed there was only The Poodle, however smaller versions popped up in litters, so early breeders showed them in the same breed as their bigger cousins. So in order to differentiate them the easiest and quickest way was to invent a measuring device - so the “hoop” was invented. So in a class of “poodles” judges could quickly differentiate the miniature version. Miniature poodles were then made a separate breed and following on from these, miniature poodles came Toy Poodles.
The history of Toys is different in the USA where white toys specifically arose from a different gene pool. Their maximum is 10in (25cm), smaller than their English counterparts. European toys were shown for many years as Dwarfs and only fairly recently (1989) was there a separation into another size, Toy Poodles, also with a 28cm height limit. However the Europeans are more fortunate in that they can breed across size and oversize toys can be migrated to the next Size.
It does seem to me that judges and breeders are ignoring the prime directive in that breed type, quality, structure, and movement should take precedence. We should remember that the closing line of the breed standard states:” Any departure from the foregoing points should be considered a Fault and the seriousness of the fault should be regarded in exact proportion to its degree.”......The whole dog must be evaluated and if one has two dogs of equal merit then the dog closest to the height requirement should win. As a judge or even a breeder would you consider a dog of 18inches (45.72cm) a standard poodle? Well technically it is, just based on a measurement. But does it have the bone, proportions of a standard poodle? if not, then it probably is not a standard but a large miniature.
If poodles, who only have the word should in the standard regarding height, and other breeds have the imperative must, then surely all those breeds should be measured?? Furthermore NO dog may, in terms of KUSA rules, be disqualified, it can only have a CC or RC withheld.
Which brings me to my conclusion: judge for type, quality, conformation and if (and this is important) IF all things are equal, place the smaller dog first.
15 March 2014
I read with interest the latest few posts.
Rules are Rules? Not in the KUSA world. There are rules for some people, yes. For other’s, they can do as they please and they will be defended by the people who are supposed to ensure said rules are enforced.
Disgruntled Member of KUSA. It really pains to have to agree with you. You say we should ask ourselves “what our KENNEL UNION is doing to implement and govern the rules which all members of KUSA are subjected to?” I can tell you from personal experience what they are doing – defending the rule breakers, and in doing so penalising the ones who object to the breaking of those rules.
There is a level of double standard now in operation the like of which I have not seen in my 30+ years showing dogs.
Clearly a signed entry form with that contains
“By entering, exhibiting or handling a dog at a show held under a Kennel Union licence I agree to be bound by the KUSA Constitution (as amended) in its entirety including all the schedules thereto.” and
“I Confirm that my entry forms and documentation are complete, and that the contents thereof are true and correct and entirely free of any false or inaccurate information.” has no value.
So, I am walking away with my +- 15 dogs exhibited around the country. When numbers decline, look to the “management”.
ON MY WAY TO ENJOYABLE WEEKENDS
24 March 2014
Just to set the record straight, on the day there were no palpably limping dogs or one that had a glaring breed fault, on the contrary there were top winning dogs exhibited in the Utility Group!!!
You are correct, I don't know that for sure the Judge did not place the mentioned dog after he/she was measured and found oversize, could be that she did precisely as you said and what is expected of a Judge, to judge the breed type, quality, structure and movement, and then if you have two dogs of equal merit, place the in size dog. Still my applause to the Judge for doing exactly that!!!
How will the Judge know which dog is closest to the height requirement if they don't measure!! Large miniature - we don't have large miniatures they are called oversize miniatures.
In my belief, if a dog shows with a drop tail, he/she is scared or not at ease with the situation he/she is in, so how can you judge the movement, (Gait/movement - Sound, free and light movement essential with plenty of drive) on a scared drop tail dog? and yes I think it must be very, very annoying to the rest of the exhibitors.
If I go to what you said about the breed standard it seems to me like you just have guidelines to the standard and not specific standards set for the Poodle!!!!! That can for sure cause lots and lots of confusion!! Maybe this is something that KUSA should look into..
24 March 2014
To '' Long Time Breeder of Poodles"
As exhibitors and long-time breeders, we have the experience and are more than adequately aware of the following:
1. What the judges role is when judging
2. We fully understand and comprehend the rules regarding, for example, an oversized dog versus a dog in size lacking quality, structure etc
Your thesis on judging is not required. We don’t need an education and for the record unless you were present to witness the actual event, I suggest you withhold what you think transpired. We are not fools and for the record, it was blatantly clear the error of the judge’s decision on the day. And as for the ''GLEE" when hoops are called for which you have witnessed on occasions, it's what you call justice and as a breeder yourself, unless you are showing oversized dogs, you should know and understand the frustrations of exhibitors when judges fail to measure the dogs. And what makes you automatically assume the other dogs in size are inferior to an oversized dog?
The only difference in the breed standard of the poodles are the size (Height), therefore a stricter policy should be enforced to differentiate.
Insult to our Intelligence
24 March 2014
27 March 2014
While I understand that a ring stewards job is not a fun one, I have a major moan about Sunday. I was called into the ring, and once I entered, I saw the judge was chatting to someone outside the ring. I stopped and turned around, and went back out.
The ring steward, told me to come in and place my dog on the table.
I politely indicated, that I was exiting as the judge was otherwise engaged and I took my dog out, to wait until the conversation was over.
The ring steward, clearly irate, told me to get in the ring and put the dog on the table.
I said when I have a judge, I will do so!
She said get in the ring and on the table.
I have this on video, of the judge arriving to look at a dog already on the table. By this time the steward was annoyed with me, and I was not happy at all either.
As far as I have been taught, judging starts on entry, not when the dogs are beamed down magically onto the table.
And I was the only person that I saw handled in this manner.
I am new to showing, and feel that this was in very bad form. Pat de Coning who was in my breed, certainly was not treated like this by the steward. If the judge had an urgent issue, I don’t mind, but I should not be expected to enter a ring to a judges back. And NOT at a champ show.
So I probably should shut my big mouth and suck it up, but quite frankly the rudeness of it, really got up my nose.
27 March 2014
What an interesting show was Wits. Apart from the shambles with Best in Show, the one judge took for ever to finish.
But then the same judge was first time judge for a championship show so perhaps you can forgive it. But then what I don't understand is how you can put a leaning judge into his ring as an observer???!!! Don't learning judges have to watch EXPERIENCED judges? Its perhaps not quite a case of the blind leading the blind, but it really makes no sense. I'm sure that a person watching the inexperienced judge's every move slowed him down even more. One can only wonder whose bright idea this was.
This is just one more example of what a farce this judges scheme has become.
Exhibitor who watched the paint dry
27 March 2014
27 March 2014
28 March 2014
ALL’S FAIR IN LOVE & WAR???
28 March 2014
I do not know you but, I have to commend you for speaking out. Yes, you were 100% correct in waiting for the judge to turn around from discourteously not applying her attentions to her entries. Any judge worth his/her salt gives you the settling period to go a fair distance round the ring before getting tabled. Ones first impression of any dog are those made on its initial go round. Although the person with whom she was conversing was not actually IN the ring it is no lesser transgression than that which Mrs Shirley Seef was disciplined for even though she was not exhibiting but had gone to greet an old time acquaintance that she had met overseas. A fairly petty accusation in my book, but on prepositions (IN or OUT) of the ring the value is the same. Therefore we need to ascertain with whom was the judge conversing with at the time.
And now to 'The Exhibitor Who Watched The Paint Dry', hearing all the various mumblings from the past weekend it becomes apparent that these imported panels are not all that they are cracked up to be. The Terrier ring had Lourens ten Napel officiating for the first time at championship level and what a lovely entry he drew. At least he did not make a fool of himself even though in some peoples eyes he was a bit slow, but then to be thorough you cannot race, the hare and the tortoise story. And so what if he had a learner judge in the ring with him? That person is only gaining closer contact with the dogs and must surely be his own man when assessing them mentally, what I am implying is that no two people see or evaluate equally. From a Smooth Fox Terrier perspective , where is this learner judge, in the near future, ever going to see 17 Smooth Fox Terriers in this day and age at an S.A show? Strike while the iron is hot.